DT Swiss RR440's or H + Son Archetypes?

[chasea]

440s are wide-ish. The rear rim is asymmetric, which gets DS and NDS spoke tensions pretty close. They're really nice rims that build into really nice wheels.

[Rnaymik]

H+

Apparently they just updated the design a bit. Curious as to what that means. Might build another set up soon.

I already loved the archetypes. For the money, I think they're awesome. At least for me (180lbs 6'3") they are stiff and responsive with 32h 2x and 3x lacing while still being comfortable. Plus they are aesthetically pleasing imo. The brake track wear looks awful once it starts to show the alu beneath, but after it wears in (fairly quickly in wet conditions) they still look great.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by LiveFreeOrDie

Placing an order tomorrow for some rims to go with my Ultegra 6500 hubs. Having a hard time deciding between the two. Both are very nice. Doing an unconventional black spoke and nipple. What say you?

I like the DT440 OC rear..you are getting the OC rear rim right? OffCenter drilling.

Swiss made, DT are the nicest rims I have ever built with, and that's 30 years of wheelbuilding. BUT the H+Son lineup is nice too but I'd give the nod to DT.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I like the DT440 OC rear..you are getting the OC rear rim right? OffCenter drilling.

Swiss made, DT are the nicest rims I have ever built with, and that's 30 years of wheelbuilding. BUT the H+Son lineup is nice too but I'd give the nod to DT.

I would say that the bed belgiums build up as well as the DT rims. I also think that they are made in North america

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

I would say that the bed belgiums build up as well as the DT rims. I also think that they are made in North america

I like the HED's but there are pretty pricey I think. I'm also liking the lower profile of the 440's.

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I like the DT440 OC rear..you are getting the OC rear rim right? OffCenter drilling.

Swiss made, DT are the nicest rims I have ever built with, and that's 30 years of wheelbuilding. BUT the H+Son lineup is nice too but I'd give the nod to DT.

You mean the asymmetric rear correct? If so, then yes. 8-)

[Fatty]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

Personally, I'd go with the DT rims which are made in Switzerland, not the H Plus Son Archetypes which are made in China.

I've ridden both wide and narrow rims and the difference seems to me overrated.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/art...ry-tour-34100/

My thoughts exactly.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

I would say that the bed belgiums build up as well as the DT rims. I also think that they are made in North america

I have built more than a few HED, and altho they build fine, about on par with early Velocity and H+Son. But DT, seems like all you are doing is center the hub, flattest, roundest rims when new I have found. Makes little difference but pretty sure HED alloy rims made in Asia.

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I like the DT440 OC rear..you are getting the OC rear rim right? OffCenter drilling.

Swiss made, DT are the nicest rims I have ever built with, and that's 30 years of wheelbuilding. BUT the H+Son lineup is nice too but I'd give the nod to DT.

I don't build wheels, but I had each these rims built by some of the best builders - and I agree with elder spud

H plus son archetype built by Justin at Luxe - I was really impressed, especially 28 spoke and it was stiff enough for me. The brake track was going rub off and then not look as nice, so I sold them while they were still new(ish) looking. I was impressed, though.

DT Swiss 415 built by Joe Young - I had these wheels 3 years and got rid of them only after getting hit by a car and they were taco'd. Rode them in NYC when I was there for work for six months and rode them everywhere. Not as trendy looking, but man, those wheels just worked. Not a single bad thing I could say about them. I must have hit hundreds if not thousands of pot holes in those 3 years and both wheels were stiff and true.

I'm not sold on wide rims either, but get why people like them.

[LiveFreeOrDie]

I'm not completely sold on the wider rims either. I pretty much decided to go with the DT's. Seems like the better choice.

[bking]

I've got dt swiss rims, i've got h plus son, both great wheels. i'll not buy anything anymore that's not the wider footprint. last two wheels were ardennes plus and fulcrum zero two ways. both great. i've also fallen for tubeless, don't see me going back, thats another story though.

we used to laugh at "made in japan" when i was a kid. doesn't have the same meaning anymore. i went though three pro machine bmc frames (swiss made, of course) before i got one with bottle bosses that were straight. both the bike shop and i were pulling our hair out after the second one.

both dt swiss and h plus son build good stuff and stand behind it. you pick.

[nublar]

Yep after going from Ksyriums to Hed Ardennes, Bontrager RXL TLR, and A23's, I'll never go back to anything less than 23mm wide. I have some 20.5mm Shimanos on the beater bike and they are not as comfortable!

[11.4]

I've got all three -- 440 OC's, Archetypes, and C2's -- and like 'em all. The C2's seem to be a little more durable than the Archetypes and especially on disc brake wheels I like the C2 non-machined finish better than the hard anodized Archetype, but that's an aesthetic issue. The C2's are the only rims I've not seen cratered. The older DT's seemed to be a little softer alloy and dented a little more easily, but with the newer generation like the 440 OC's, that seems to have been fixed. And now their alloy sidewalls outlast practically anything else except possibly the HED's. I do notice some difference between the narrower 440 OC's and the wider C2's, but you see it mostly when turning, sprinting, or descending because the wider rim helps stabilize the sidewall profile of the tire. If you are mostly riding straight-line training or group rides, don't expect the extra width to amount to much. On the other hand, if you really need a stronger wheel, I found I built the C2's optimally to a higher tension than what the Archetypes favored, and the 440 OC's built completely differently at a lower tension to a much more even build. If I wanted the best wheel build, it would be the 440 OC's. If I wanted the best race wheel or wheel for serious lateral stresses, it would be the C2. The Archetypes would miss out by a relatively small margin. If it came down to a much lower price, I'd buy the Archetypes, but they are the only rim where I've actually worn (on the hard anodized Archetypes) the sidewalls to where they needed replacement. That just speaks to shorter lifetime and the small potential for a failure if I weren't attentive to replacing components as needed. I'm riding a pair of Pacenti's now and liking them, but don't have enough data on them. I did ride a pair of A23's for a brief while and really didn't like them for their soft alloy and because they didn't build up anywhere near as well as the other rims discussed here.

[LiveFreeOrDie]

So...I've decided to ditch my original plans of using my outdated Ultegra 6500 hubs for my new wheels. I figure if I'm spending a nice chunk of money why not go all in.

Going with some silver White Industries with RR 440's. Psyched. Thanks for all your help and advice. Very much appreciated.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by LiveFreeOrDie

So...I've decided to ditch my original plans of using my outdated Ultegra 6500 hubs for my new wheels. I figure if I'm spending a nice chunk of money why not go all in.

Going with some silver White Industries with RR 440's. Psyched. Thanks for all your help and advice. Very much appreciated.

Good choice.