OT: D-day hybrid before/after pics

[Dale Alan]

...the thread goes negative. Why ?

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Louis

Yeah, we should have let the Brits and the Russians deal with the Germans on their own. And when attacked by the Japanese we could have ceded everything west of the Mississippi to them. I'm sure the world would have been a much better place with the Hirohito commanding China and the Pacific and Hitler Europe and the Atlantic. We would have been nice, comfy and safe at home.

With all due respect Louis I think you missed his point. All of the things you mentioned would not have happened if the political leaders did not send young men to war for their ambitions. If hitler et al did not start wars others would not have to send their young to die to free people. Let's keep this about the brave young men and women who sacrificed so much.

[93legendti]

Originally Posted by The B

We haven't fought a justifiable war since 1776, if then. I'm simply disgusted at the staggering loss of life in the name of money and power by fat bastards in high places.

But for the men who did the fighting... Explaining what things like D-Day are to my sons still chokes me up, thinking about the sacrifices that those men made for their countries, and reasons given to them at the time. Brave, brave men... and those who didn't come home were the lucky ones.

God bless 'em. Never forget 'em. They'll have my deepest respect, until the day I breath my last.

Thanks for ruining the day.

Who knew that when you are attacked and war is declared against you, you aren't justified in defending yourself?

My Father was born in Europe and then came here in the 30's...He fought at DDay and the Bulge, etc. and he thought it was justified - his opinion means 1000% more to me than your nonsense.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

All of the things you mentioned would not have happened if the political leaders did not send young men to war for their ambitions. If hitler et al did not start wars others would not have to send their young to die to free people.

I hear what you're saying, but that's not what B said.

[malcolm]

Originally Posted by The B

We haven't fought a justifiable war since 1776, if then. I'm simply disgusted at the staggering loss of life in the name of money and power by fat bastards in high places.

But for the men who did the fighting... Explaining what things like D-Day are to my sons still chokes me up, thinking about the sacrifices that those men made for their countries, and reasons given to them at the time. Brave, brave men... and those who didn't come home were the lucky ones.

God bless 'em. Never forget 'em. They'll have my deepest respect, until the day I breath my last.

Perspective.

How can any war between civilized peoples be justified? On some plane debate should prevail, no ? However in reality it seldom does.

I'm ashamed to say I'm far less knowledgeable about our own war of independence than WW2, but I have to strongly disagree if for no other reason than the number of peoples involved and the clear distinction between basic right and wrong.

I will offer that WW2 was/is the only war I'm aware of in human history with a more clear right and wrong or good vs evil if you will. If you dissect it you will find hints of money, resources and power as you always will, but right and wrong were clearly defined and an eagerness to participate on an individual level has been unmatched.

There was wanton destruction on all sides and even the good guys committed some heinous acts, but this conflict had a more defined atrocity committed across more geography against more humans than any I can recall. It was matched by a level of human coalescence and sacrifice for a common goal that had never been seen before or since. It was a stark contrast between the best and worst of us and that's why it shouldn't be forgotten.

It saddens me as the participants dwindle and these events of human history becomes just that for most of us, history and stories. I think for most people of that generation and the following generations that actually knew people that were there it was a unique event/conflict and the lessons need never be forgotten.

[93legendti]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sHcJtU9dr6I

[cookietom]

Wish that my Dad WWll veteran see this...survived the war but not cancer.

[Saint Vitus]

I think The B has taken the Smedley Butler view on war and I can respect that, and Malcom makes an excellent rebuttal to The B and takes the high road.

Both are valid points and worth discussing with reasoned responses.

With regards to the topic at hand, a friend's father passed last month. He came ashore with the 95 that day. After the war he studied history, wrote books and saved many historical places in San Diego. One of many of his generation that were imbued with a sense of urgency about life that war imparts on many.

[Louis]

I'm all for pacifism and disarmament, but pacifism in the face of massive aggression or unilateral disarmament vs overwhelming force are not recipes for a lasting civilization.

Yes, I'd like "peace for our time" but it usually takes more than wishing and hoping to make that come true.

[rab]

Thanks for posting, have seen a few of the "then and now" photo essays before and I am always amazed at how many of the buildings are still so unchanged.

Always good to remember, lest we forget how gruesome war can be.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by The B

We haven't fought a justifiable war since 1776, if then. I'm simply disgusted at the staggering loss of life in the name of money and power by fat bastards in high places.

But for the men who did the fighting... Explaining what things like D-Day are to my sons still chokes me up, thinking about the sacrifices that those men made for their countries, and reasons given to them at the time. Brave, brave men... and those who didn't come home were the lucky ones.


God bless 'em. Never forget 'em. They'll have my deepest respect, until the day I breath my last.

??

Spoken like a true civilian who enjoys his present, free lifestyle because of those who did the fighting.

Nobody hates war more than those who must fight it.

Neither Hitler nor Hirohito were fat nor interested in money..power yes.

[Dead Man]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

??

Spoken like a true civilian who enjoys his present, free lifestyle because of those who did the fighting.

Nobody hates war more than those who must fight it.

Neither Hitler nor Hirohito were fat nor interested in money..power yes.

I'll show you my dd214 sometime, and my scars.

[firerescuefin]

Originally Posted by The B

I'll show you my dd214 sometime, and my scars.

Curious how you would have handled WWII from the Allied position....since you went there.

[cnighbor1]

DT
Little did Hitler know that the computer along with the internet would rule the world and beyond.
Interesting to see flocks of tourists in the towns and beaches of Normandy.
compared to fighting photos it is surreal.

[akelman]

I don't really feel like wading into the fever swamp, but the idea that the War of Independence was somehow more justifiable than the United States's participation in WWII seems odd to me. I'd like to hear more about that line of argument, but only if the usual keyboard commandos aren't going to jump up and down and claim that an internet discussion on an obscure cycling website somehow defiles the memories of those who served.