OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[KarlC]

We just got a Lucid Air Touring and so far we love the car !!!

My wife did her 1st EV road trip from So Ca to No Ca after owing it just a few days, she did NOT like the whole on the road charging tho.

Lucid Air, like many EV brands, are droping thier prices a lot. We did a 18 month lease, and I saw some people geting deals on 2023s for under $400 a month and 2024s for under $500 a month.

We have solar at home so plan on saving a lot on gas going forward.

.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by KarlC

she did NOT like the whole on the road charging tho.

For certain it's less than ideal, but I always tell myself "it's a bit like owning an ICE car in 1920." The infrastructure will eventually catch up.

Also, I've found that people at the charging stations are generally considerate and you can have pleasant conversations while waiting. Though I'm sure there are plenty of bad experiences to be had out there.

[saab2000]

I don’t want to keep tooting the Tesla horn because I know the baggage of the brand, etc. But their charging in the wild is simply the best there is. I think Ford and Rivian now have access to their network but the physical adapters are not all out there yet and there will be a learning curve. Tesla chargers and Tesla cars are designed to work seamlessly by backing into the charging stall. Other brands put their charging ports in different spots. There will be challenges.

As mentioned, it’s like a gas car in the 1920s.

My life with my Model Y is pretty freaking easy (but there are a number of aspects of the car I don’t love as well as many good things too to be fair) and this is largely because charging on a road trip is super simple.

People need to consider their needs with a vehicle and assess their charging requirements with the knowledge that any charger (on a road trip, not a home charger because there are lots of good home chargers that are not Tesla) not branded Tesla is likely going to disappoint in April 2024.

If you’re not a road tripper and you can charge at home for most driving the world is your oyster because home charging is way, way, way simpler for every brand and there are some great brands out there.

I got my Model Y because it more or less duplicated my VW Tiguan in terms of utility and came with a factory trailer hitch receiver with the appropriate electrical connector. If I didn’t have that requirement I would be much more receptive to a different brand. The trailer hitch requirement is for my bike rack, pure and simple. For many trips I can just put the bike in the back with the seat folded down and be on my way. I can put my 57ish road bike in the back without taking the front wheel off. That’s a plus.

This is after all nominally a cycling forum.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by KarlC

We just got a Lucid Air Touring and so far we love the car !!!

My wife did her 1st EV road trip from So Ca to No Ca after owing it just a few days, she did NOT like the whole on the road charging tho.

Lucid Air, like many EV brands, are droping thier prices a lot. We did a 18 month lease, and I saw some people geting deals on 2023s for under $400 a month and 2024s for under $500 a month.

We have solar at home so plan on saving a lot on gas going forward.

.

You should let your wife know they once Lucid is able to access the Tesla Supercharger network, things will be a lot better. I know there’s a lot of Elon/Tesla hate, but one thing he got right was the supercharger network. It is seamless and fast.

It’s my understanding that lucid will be able to access them in like 2025 with an adapter, which should be provided.

Good Luck!

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

For certain it's less than ideal, but I always tell myself "it's a bit like owning an ICE car in 1920." The infrastructure will eventually catch up.(...)

Non-Tesla EV charging stations suck because their owners have conflicting interests.

Electrify America is owned by Volkswagen Automotive Group. Installing a network of electric vehicle charging stations was part of their penalty for "Dieselgate." It's not in VAG's best interest to make EV charging a pleasant experience.

Shell, BP, Chevron, and Exxon have also invested in EV charging networks. It could be argued these are less legitimate hedges against a drop in oil demand and more an attempt to poison public opinion against EV's.

Ford, GM, and Stellantis all switched to supporting Tesla's NACS architecture for a reason. They don't see their successful EV future working with any of the non-Tesla EV charging networks, because those networks don't intend to be successful.

[PSC]

I live in Tacoma and Tesla has 2 charging stations one is 12 stalls, they other is 16. Less the a half mile away, they are putting in a third, not sure if it's 12 or 16. Even if Tesla takes a hit in car sales, their charging network will be the real money maker.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by PSC

I live in Tacoma and Tesla has 2 charging stations one is 12 stalls, they other is 16. Less the a half mile away, they are putting in a third, not sure if it's 12 or 16. Even if Tesla takes a hit in car sales, their charging network will be the real money maker.

Exactly!
It would be like Ford, Chevy (fill in the auto maker) owning most of the gas stations.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by PSC

I live in Tacoma and Tesla has 2 charging stations one is 12 stalls, they other is 16. Less the a half mile away, they are putting in a third, not sure if it's 12 or 16. Even if Tesla takes a hit in car sales, their charging network will be the real money maker.

This is clearly fantastic for all involved. But it’s still a great idea to invest in a home charger and have it professionally installed to avoid the potential hassles of fast charging.

Level 2 charging is relatively “slow” but still fast enough for 99% of daily driving and is better for the battery in many cases. Many batteries are better off if charged to 80% or less daily (a setting that can be made in the vehicle’s app or the vehicle itself) for regular usage. Of course, a setting of up to 100% is available for a road trip when needed.

I charge at home and my daily charge limit is 50%. Rarely need more and when I do I simply raise the limit in the app and away it goes to that limit.

[merckxman]

"In China, an electric car that costs just $5,000* is suddenly one of the biggest sellers. " Mentioned in NYT. What's needed here is less expensive EVs.

*"Hongguang Mini, a tiny two-door model that costs about $5,000. It’s manufactured by the three-way international joint venture SAIC-GM-Wuling, in the factories of Liuzhou."

[Louis]

Originally Posted by merckxman

"In China, an electric car that costs just $5,000* is suddenly one of the biggest sellers. " Mentioned in NYT. What's needed here is less expensive EVs.

*"Hongguang Mini, a tiny two-door model that costs about $5,000. It’s manufactured by the three-way international joint venture SAIC-GM-Wuling, in the factories of Liuzhou."

I'm sure Detroit would be all excited about that...

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by PSC

I live in Tacoma and Tesla has 2 charging stations one is 12 stalls, they other is 16. Less the a half mile away, they are putting in a third, not sure if it's 12 or 16. Even if Tesla takes a hit in car sales, their charging network will be the real money maker.

This doesn't work in reality. Currently, Tesla revenue is approx. $0.40 / KWH. The gross profit margin is in single digits, which is less than half current auto profit margin.

A back of the envelope shows about $1.6b revenue/year currently for charging versus $90b in revenue for the automanufacturing. Bberg NEF estimate charging revenue by 2030 will be $7.5b/year. So still doesn't move the needle. (btw, to get there they need about 257,000 connectors verses their current 55,000)

The economics for charging is just a utility, and utilities trade at a very different price/multiple than a tech growth company.

I am wondering what rabbit pulls out of the hat today for earnings with announcing something around the Tesla 2. The robotaxi is long long term because you are reliant on regulatory approvals at city/state level, as well as additional tech breakthroughs and you see how slow the rollout is for Google and GM.

BTW, I have no idea what tesla does short term.

[paredown]

On the supply side, I found this article interesting--basically California is producing more solar power than they can effectively use and are seeing a slowdown in retrofit home solar installations.

A good problem to have (sort of)--and the discussion of the demand curve is interesting (and may be the sort of incentive that's needed for 'battery walls' even at the home level).

The graph of the growth in solar panel output is amazing!


Washington Post/gift article: 'Rooftop solar panels are flooding California’s grid. That’s a problem.'
https://wapo.st/3U3zAyg

[Mike V]

All new homes that are built in California are mandated to have solar on them.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

For certain it's less than ideal, but I always tell myself "it's a bit like owning an ICE car in 1920." The infrastructure will eventually catch up.

Also, I've found that people at the charging stations are generally considerate and you can have pleasant conversations while waiting. Though I'm sure there are plenty of bad experiences to be had out there.

I got my first Tesla in 2013 and that was my experience. Road trips required a lot of planning - I used the occasional RV park (the Good Sam app was real handy) to charge in addition to the rare Tesla supercharger. It was still a bit of an event to see another Tesla on the road and charging was always a social occasion. Occasionally would recognize a car from the Tesla forum and it was kind of like a Paceline meet up. I still have an inclination to chat people up at Superchargers but it’s a more normal experience now, no eye contact, etc.

I chatted with a Rivian owner (seeing a lot of those around here now) and he’s very happy with it and was planning on buying an adapter to use the Tesla chargers.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by merckxman

"In China, an electric car that costs just $5,000* is suddenly one of the biggest sellers. " Mentioned in NYT. What's needed here is less expensive EVs.

*"Hongguang Mini, a tiny two-door model that costs about $5,000. It’s manufactured by the three-way international joint venture SAIC-GM-Wuling, in the factories of Liuzhou."

A really cheap electric car would be totally awesome. If I could buy an electric vehicle for $5k, I would go get one right now.

Would be absolutely perfect for daily errand running, dropping the kids off places, grocery shopping, etc, without burning any gas. or displacing our ICE vehicles for longer trips or moving bigger stuff.

Maybe before too too long, I'll be able to get an electric motorcycle with a side car cheap.That would be a fun sort of practical way to do stuff locally.