OT Key Bridge collapse - seems surreal

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Well, as I said, move the port to the other side of that bridge.

Part of the port is already outside the bridge (Sparrow Point). Not much space elsewhere - most of the area is developed. No idea if Sparrow Point can be built up to take much of the big cargo shipping from Dundalk and Seagrit.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by buddybikes

Require more tugs in harbors, heard it is the ships job to hire tugs

(note I love tugs, drive by 4 beauties when heading to grocery)

Tugs are like the Surly Long Haul Trucker in the bike world.

I'm fascinated by them too...all engine and grunt. Get to see them going back and forth on the Cape Cod Canal all the time, mostly moving barges.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by redir

I was white knuckling it watching those big rigs go over the bridge just before that thing hit it. Thankfully it was at the least busiest time on that bridge. It always gives me pause when thinking about how astronomical the odds are when things like this occur. You could have had to run back into the house because you forgot your wallet and would have totally missed that collision, or been right on time for it.

Reminds me of the movie Sliding Doors. Great movie!

[benb]

There were a couple updates just perusing the news:

- This ship was held for engine problems last summer somewhere else
- There were apparently known electrical issues while it was in port that may or may not have been properly addressed
- NTSB is supposedly going to put out a preliminary analysis of the black box later today

[zmudshark]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Maritime ambulance chasers.

I wouldn't worry too much about losses to the families of those killed. That won't be too much. May sound cruel, but, they were repairing pot holes. Their lives values will be bargained down. It's the state and federal government, and the Port of Baltimore, if they decide to sue, hooboy, that's going to be some kind of settlement. There's a lot of lawyers who are going to make life changing sums for all that.

The victims in the bridge collapse were from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras, officials say. They were also minutes away from being cleared from the bridge.

[weisan]

Radio dispatch requesting traffic stop moments before collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0be78Mifeg

[weisan]

Aerial view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulMWc-cVxME

[Mr.Appa]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Have you seen how far aground ships can get? Even empty (which the Dali was not), that's a LOT of mass to slow down.

I guess the question is how much slower would the ship need to be to avoid a total collapse of the bridge?

And the Dali swerved pretty close to the bridge. Can we build crash structures close enough to take up the impact, but not also be pushed into the bridge.

No idea on the answers. But, it's definitely not as trivial as "just add some sand or a really big pylon".

Its easy to design something for that. Its harder to ask (and answer) if the cost is worth it.

AASHTO has some guidance, but as I said in my other posts it comes down to risk in the decision making process - what is most likely to cause the most amount of damage, and how do you mitigate that to make it tolerable. Because again, we have thousands of structurally deficient bridges in the US that can fail without a big ol' boat running into them.

In my little corner of civil engineering we spend WEEKS figuring out what is the riskiest part of our structures, then decide if it's above or below a societal acceptance of risk, and then figure out if we need to address it.

The societal risk is somewhat dependent on all of us, the society - what is a threshold where people start to take notice for different types of failures/disaster, and what is the threshold where we demand action? Think of how we react when a plane crashes (or even just a panel flies off mid flight) vs. how many people die in car crashes per day in the US. It depends on a lot of things, and I'm all for making things as safe as we can. It typically takes a big disaster like this to nudge society (and congress/purse holders) to take action.

Sorry for the lack of commentary on insurance and tugboats

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by zmudshark

The victims in the bridge collapse were from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras, officials say. They were also minutes away from being cleared from the bridge.

A lot of the US economy is out of sight out of mind. The ship was bound for Sri Lanka. I was wondering what the US exports to Sri Lanka which would require such a large ship since we don't really make anything. The BBC today reported part of the cargo on the containership was hazardous waste and it had leaked into the harbor. To which a little research shows -

Sri Lanka, like many other countries in the Global South, routinely imports waste from the West for recycling. However, it is also a party to the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their Disposal. This means that exporters must obtain Sri Lanka’s consent before sending medical or other biohazardous waste to the country. However, practice on paper and practice in real life may differ. Many shipments are illegal and many containers on legal shipments often contain illegal biohazardous materials. (Fly tipping at an industrial scale). As someone from the EPA told me a few years ago, if you don't spend money on enforcement, the regulation doesn't exist.

I guess the old joke in the west to the developing world that we import your cheap stuff and export our pollution still holds.

https://www.cea.lk/web/granting-cons...0not%20allowed.

https://news.mongabay.com/2020/12/sr...-more-to-come/

Obviously, the issue is not just US.

[benb]

The ships themselves are often just run aground in developing nations and then broken down without much effort put into proper waste cleanup.

They can actually be run pretty far aground. Lots of pictures. They run them up big shallow beaches and can then tear them apart on the beach. Easy to find pictures.

[redir]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Reminds me of the movie Sliding Doors. Great movie!

Neat! I'll have to check it out, I've never heard of this one before.

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

I have heard of this guy! I understand that he's also got multiple degrees and post-doc work in public health, epidemiology, immunology.....

While some folks do indeed take things too far, the assumption that people who question official narratives are somehow stupid or even wrong because they don't have a special piece of paper in a field of study is kind of crazy at this stage. I have no clue what happened here and will reserve judgement until there is more information and while it very well could have been an accidental occurrence your public health comment is so full of holes I will fill in some blanks for you below.

Mockingly bringing up the lockdown ridden "pandemic" means you are still ignorant to a lot of facts about what transpired. It was quite literally the largest wealth transfer ever recorded. Money/fiat currency was printed and funneled to the wealthiest of the wealthy. Then people were coerced or even forced to take an experimental medical product that ended up permanently injuring many giving way to an exponential increase in death especially amongst working class americans. Just based on the data from life insurance policies which show an increase of 40% in all cause mortality of Americans, an exponential increase in cancer rates, an exponential increase in heart related injuries, an increase in strokes and a decrease in both average mortality and birth rates... All of which are verifiable and happened post medical intervention not prior. These occurrences are not attributable to the VID.

The chosen "experts" pushed narrative driven unscientific BS while those with even more credentials and qualifications were censored see the Great Barrington Declaration. They were then silenced and cast out of their positions instead of going along to get along. I remember propaganda driven slogans like "100% safe and effective", "stop the spread", "you can't pass it to others if you take it", "pandemic of the unvaccinated", "everyone needs it from 6 months old to 100 to stop the pandemic", "cloth masks prevent respiratory virus", "you are gonna kill grandma", "two weeks to stop the spread", " Flu just disappeared" and the list goes on and on. They were all lies that through the Freedom of information Act show us that the folks pushing all of this were clearly and knowingly lying about it in their own self interest.

I realize that nobody has been held accountable for any of this and that "trusted" news sources still march to the tune of their biggest advertisers/donors aka Big Pharma and the US Government, but there is plenty of real evidence for those of us with an open mind, critical thought and the most recent academic studies not funded by the entities above or the regulatory captured agencies they run by providing the funds. A healthy bit of skepticism of the current world is more than warranted. I blame the NDAA which legalized state run propaganda of which is perpetually pushed in the USA.

It is odd as an adult to see intelligent folks hubris on matters that are deemed socially acceptable. I find those who are of exceptional intelligence are very susceptible to propaganda because they allow ego to fool them into actually believing that because their intellect is high they are incapable of being fooled. We are all human beings and susceptible to lots of things. Then comes the affirmation from the shiny box and it's bought and paid for representatives, radio stations, news rooms and so on to keep them blinded from what is actually going on, so maybe it's time to tone down the social media accepted rhetoric. People have been permanently harmed and there are roughly 14,000,000-17,000,000 verifiable worldwide excess deaths attributable to that specific medical intervention.

My heart is healthy and so am I. I didn't even take the first round of shots let alone the 5th and somehow I survived the dreaded .001% fatal flu as did my entire family. We dealt with the open discrimination and didn't support ravenous corporations pushing authoritarian measures, inhumane propaganda, or the constant carrot dangling of if you do this you will get your freedom back and some ballpark tickets. It was all utter nonsense and this comment just perpetuates it. Try using some discernment and class next time instead of spreading state run narrative driven BS.

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[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

While some folks do indeed take things too far, the assumption that people who question official narratives are somehow stupid or even wrong because they don't have a special piece of paper in a field of study is kind of crazy at this stage. I have no clue what happened here and will reserve judgement until there is more information and while it very well could have been an accidental occurrence your public health comment is so full of holes I will fill in some blanks for you below.

Mockingly bringing up the lockdown ridden "pandemic" means you are still ignorant to a lot of facts about what transpired. It was quite literally the largest wealth transfer ever recorded. Money/fiat currency was printed and funneled to the wealthiest of the wealthy. Then people were coerced or even forced to take an experimental medical product that ended up permanently injuring many giving way to an exponential increase in death especially amongst working class americans. Just based on the data from life insurance policies which show an increase of 40% in all cause mortality of Americans, an exponential increase in cancer rates, an exponential increase in heart related injuries, an increase in strokes and a decrease in both average mortality and birth rates... All of which are verifiable and happened post medical intervention not prior. These occurrences are not attributable to the VID.

The chosen "experts" pushed narrative driven unscientific BS while those with even more credentials and qualifications were censored see the Great Barrington Declaration. They were then silenced and cast out of their positions instead of going along to get along. I remember propaganda driven slogans like "100% safe and effective", "stop the spread", "you can't pass it to others if you take it", "pandemic of the unvaccinated", "everyone needs it from 6 months old to 100 to stop the pandemic", "cloth masks prevent respiratory virus", "you are gonna kill grandma", "two weeks to stop the spread", " Flu just disappeared" and the list goes on and on. They were all lies that through the Freedom of information Act show us that the folks pushing all of this were clearly and knowingly lying about it in their own self interest.

I realize that nobody has been held accountable for any of this and that "trusted" news sources still march to the tune of their biggest advertisers/donors aka Big Pharma and the US Government, but there is plenty of real evidence for those of us with an open mind, critical thought and the most recent academic studies not funded by the entities above or the regulatory captured agencies they run by providing the funds. A healthy bit of skepticism of the current world is more than warranted. I blame the NDAA which legalized state run propaganda of which is perpetually pushed in the USA.

It is odd as an adult to see intelligent folks hubris on matters that are deemed socially acceptable. I find those who are of exceptional intelligence are very susceptible to propaganda because they allow ego to fool them into actually believing that because their intellect is high they are incapable of being fooled. We are all human beings and susceptible to lots of things. Then comes the affirmation from the shiny box and it's bought and paid for representatives, radio stations, news rooms and so on to keep them blinded from what is actually going on, so maybe it's time to tone down the social media accepted rhetoric. People have been permanently harmed and there are roughly 14,000,000-17,000,000 verifiable worldwide excess deaths attributable to that specific medical intervention.

My heart is healthy and so am I. I didn't even take the first round of shots let alone the 5th and somehow I survived the dreaded .001% fatal flu as did my entire family. We dealt with the open discrimination and didn't support ravenous corporations pushing authoritarian measures, inhumane propaganda, or the constant carrot dangling of if you do this you will get your freedom back and some ballpark tickets. It was all utter nonsense and this comment just perpetuates it. Try using some discernment and class next time instead of spreading state run narrative driven BS.

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Nope. Dilettantes play acting as experts and doubling down is what is what's crazy and ignorant to me.

[mickey.d]

thread went from a boat crash to a train wreck mighty fast
🚂 💥

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

Nope. Dilettantes play acting as experts and doubling down is what is what's crazy and ignorant to me.

Everything I stated is verifiable, but your hubris and cognitive dissonance won't allow it. Have a good one!

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