Wal-mart guy buys RAPHA...

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And good on them for living their best lives, I don't begrudge them that, and I'm glad the money is going to at least some marginal good use.

But there are some (and count me in that basket) who think the economy-bending organization that is Wal-Mart, and the near unimaginable dynastic wealth that's been created by its practices -- they're the richest family in America at a hair over $130 billion -- can't easily be hand-waved away.

The family still controls 54% of the company that today still engages, in my view, in a bunch of scummy business practices. This isn't some long-detached fortune that was created centuries ago, like he's some farflung Du Pont sibling. Pop-pop created arguably one of the most destructive retail forces the world has ever seen and the family still calls the shots.

Cutting a couple of sweet mountain bike trails and being fast on a group ride and buying a clothing company ain't exactly absolution for that.

Well okay then.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And good on them for living their best lives, I don't begrudge them that, and I'm glad the money is going to at least some marginal good use.

But there are some (and count me in that basket) who think the economy-bending organization that is Wal-Mart, and the near unimaginable dynastic wealth that's been created by its practices -- they're the richest family in America at a hair over $130 billion -- can't easily be hand-waved away.

The family still controls 54% of the company that today still engages, in my view, in a bunch of scummy business practices. This isn't some long-detached fortune that was created centuries ago, like he's some farflung Du Pont sibling. Pop-pop created arguably one of the most destructive retail forces the world has ever seen and the family still calls the shots.

Cutting a couple of sweet mountain bike trails and being fast on a group ride and buying a clothing company ain't exactly absolution for that.

Hear, hear. This sums it up nicely.
You can be ok with this or not, its to each their individual call, but its hard to argue with anything Flash just said.

Also, I am starting to wonder if their end-game is turning the CC's into bicycle repair shops as well as clothing stores. I just went to the Los Angeles one and saw the inside. Its ****ing huge and on 4th street in Santa Monica. Its one expensive piece of physical retail storefront if its going to serve as a loss leader for online sales...

[gdw]

We need to add the Sonoma incident and vegan/vegitarian discussions to this thread. Rapha, Wal-Mart, big ag, self loathing cyclists...... think of the possibilities and it isn't even January.

[fuzzalow]

Heck, the angriest thing I've got to say about the Walton heirs is that I wasn't born one of them.

Followed by a close second to not being Simon whats-his-name for not being the guy that came up with, and then cashed outta, Rapha.

There's always somebody smarter, richer...

To FlashUNC's point but not in agreement with: WalMart is modern day capitalism even if it has mutated away from the customer-focused ideals that might have be at the core of Sam Walton's goals and beliefs from when he started WalMart all those years ago - to give his customers more for their money.

It is capitalism, and it underlies what and how the Waltons do what they do. If not by them, then certainly, in the due course of capitalist progression, this would have been done by somebody else.

[Climb01742]

Wal-Mart and Patagonia both exist under 'capitalism' yet they illustrate that there is no one, encompassing definition of of what capitalism is, or the values that govern it.

So much discourse today falls into the either/or dialectic. Which serves no one and definitely doesn't serve getting at the truth of a situation.

The Wal-Marts heirs who bought Rapha fall into this dialectic. They're either good hearted saviors or vile offspring of cutthroat capitalism. Isn't the truth somewhere in between?

Their inheritance is the result of business practices that are 100% legal but have a) lowered the prices of almost every item imaginable and b) harmed many communities, small businesses and employees while doing it.

The heirs may be good men and have good intentions, and they should be judged by their actions. But it would be naive, I think, and a bit myopic, to not at least factor in where the money they are doing good with came from.

It's one of the greatest questions about dynastic wealth, asked in reference to the Rockefellers, Andrew Carnegie, Hearst, du Pont, and even the 'merchant of death' (from his obit) that founded the Nobels...what's the statute of limitations on the harm/evil done to make fortunes? Not an either/or question or answer. Like capitalism itself, it's neither good nor bad, it's grey defined by the lives of those that make and use that wealth.

[kevinvc]

The Walton family will be extremely rich for the rest of their generations. The heirs will not have to work and will be free to pursue whatever endeavors that they choose without regard for generating income for themselves. Great for them, arguably not so for our society as a whole if we choose to continue to deceive ourselves that we live in a meritocracy.

My personal belief is that this is a great example of the need for an estate tax. This has nothing to do with whatever values or politics these individuals hold or how the fortune was earned. I feel the same for Paul Allen, Bill Gates, etc.

[54ny77]

the moral indignation about source of wealth shaping one's current decision making can be never ending.

where does one draw the line? i suppose that's part of this discussion.

for example, do a simple search about global companies complicit in aiding and/or profiting from their affiliation with nazi germany. it's huge.

drink coffee from a krupp machine? drive a porsche or vw? pop a bayer aspirin for a headache?

and on and on....including american companies. and ain't it ironic that alcoa is one of them (relevant in this bike-centric forum as a bike tubing manufacturer).

[dbnm]

Shipping is the worst part of Rapha.

Two day shipping should be standard on orders over $100.

Their customer service is really quite good via both phone and email.

[colker]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

the moral indignation about source of wealth shaping one's current decision making can be never ending.

where does one draw the line? i suppose that's part of this discussion.

for example, do a simple search about global companies complicit in aiding and/or profiting from their affiliation with nazi germany. it's huge.

drink coffee from a krupp machine? drive a porsche or vw? pop a bayer aspirin for a headache?

and on and on....including american companies. and ain't it ironic that alcoa is one of them (relevant in this bike-centric forum as a bike tubing manufacturer).

This^^Money is usually tainted w/ injustice.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

the moral indignation about source of wealth shaping one's current decision making can be never ending.

where does one draw the line? i suppose that's part of this discussion.

for example, do a simple search about global companies complicit in aiding and/or profiting from their affiliation with nazi germany. it's huge.

drink coffee from a krupp machine? drive a porsche or vw? pop a bayer aspirin for a headache?

and on and on....including american companies. and ain't it ironic that alcoa is one of them (relevant in this bike-centric forum as a bike tubing manufacturer).

If Henry Ford were still running Ford, then the comparison might be apt. (Course, Henry paid his line workers double the going labor rate cuz he wanted customers for his Model T, whereas the Walton's are fine with their employees on government assistance, effectively having the rest of us subsidize their business practices, but I digress.)

The Walton family still runs Wal Mart. Everything wrong with the company stops with the Walton family, both in origin and current operation.

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

So they are grandsons of the Walmart founder and own an investment firm....not exactly 'Walmart guys', eh?

Steuart Walton is not just a trust-fund kid.

http://www.waltonfamilyfoundation.org/steuart-walton

"Steuart serves on the board of directors of Walmart..."

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by instantturtle

Aren't the Waltons the modern day robber barons?

No, that would be Jeff Bezos.

[Fatty]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

No, that would be Jeff Bezos.

Or Elon Musk.

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

No, that would be Jeff Bezos.

At least Wal-Mart has made an actual profit...

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by Fatty

Or Elon Musk.

Elon Musk has not attempted (yet) to dominate retail sales of everything made in the universe.