Another Porsche Question

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by veggieburger

Apparently a pretty good anti-carjacking deterrent.

Or a hostage-taking opportunity.

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by veggieburger

Apparently a pretty good anti-carjacking deterrent.

No, just tell 'em the cupholders don't work and he won't want the car.

[benb]

I don't really care if all these fancy new computerized transmissions are technically faster, if I ever buy another sporty car it's manual transmission or nothing.

I pretty much find all these computerized transmissions nonsense except for CVTs. They are surely all ridiculous things that the engineers were forced to build because marketing/management wanted them to. The designs of things like dual-clutch transmissions and 9-speed slush box automatics are so needlessly complicated and expensive for what they achieve.

[texbike]

Originally Posted by benb

I don't really care if all these fancy new computerized transmissions are technically faster, if I ever buy another sporty car it's manual transmission or nothing.

Agreed! A major part of the driving experience for me is the interaction, feel, and sound of a manual gearbox. I'm not looking for the fastest vehicle - just the experience and interaction with a competent machine that has character. 2002s, ac'd 911s, Alfa GTVs, and GTIs have been some of my favorites.

Texbike

[GregL]

[Tim Porter]

I got my 911 new in Dec. '96, so I've been shifting that thing for a little under 21 years. No cupholder, but have to admit I found an aftermarket thingamajig that hooks to the passenger seat rail so you can take along a cup of coffee or whatever. The bike, of course, has multiple beverage holders.

[IMG][/IMG]

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by texbike

Agreed! A major part of the driving experience for me is the interaction, feel, and sound of a manual gearbox. I'm not looking for the fastest vehicle - just the experience and interaction with a competent machine that has character. 2002s, ac'd 911s, Alfa GTVs, and GTIs have been some of my favorites.

Texbike

I understand what your saying - I loved my 1974 Alfa 2000 GTV.

On the other hand I am really enjoying my new Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio even though it is an automatic with paddle shifters. I don't listen to the radio in this car or eat in it. Just fun driving.

The problem is I am having so much fun that today I went for a test drive in an Alfa 4C. The Alfa Romeo in my blood was dormant for over 30 years but now I can't control it.

Jeff

[Climb01742]

I may be an infidel but I'd take a PDK any day, all day. I've paid my dues rowing gears. May call into question my manhood but I'm cool with that.

[Vientomas]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

I may be an infidel but I'd take a PDK any day, all day. I've paid my dues rowing gears. May call into question my manhood but I'm cool with that.

Same here...in fact I have taken one! Panamera 4s. Plenty lively when in the "manual mode" and shifts well when in "sport plus mode" too.

[Ken Robb]

My MINI Cooper S is manual but Leslie usually drives a 2014 Mazda3 2.5L w/6 speed auto. It is an excellent tranny in normal drive. It has paddle shifters that allow immediate shifts up/down at any time even when the floor shifter is in Normal Drive. If I push the sport button the tranny drives like I was going for top-time-of-the-day on a track. I've won a few time trials so I know how that works. :-) Mazda offers very good manual set-ups but I think I would still choose the automatic in a car that was MY daily driver. It's a real boon in our often congested traffic and there is no downside for performance and/or economy.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

I might have spoken a little rashly about drivers not driving a manual transmission car. It may well be that modern state of the art sportscars are no longer meant to be driven with a clutch pedal and gear lever used in sliding gears around in a manual gearbox.

I don't pay attention to cars much anymore but I doubt one ever loses the affinity for cars, especially Porsches, if one ever had an affinity for cars in the first place. I like cars, it is car culture I despise. But even if I'm not current about or in the market for a Porsche, Porsche Cars North America knows me as a previous buyer and sends me updates, brochures, booklets and swag to keep me interested. And indeed I am still interested and enjoy getting this marketing. A quick scan of a page from something PCNA sent me just yesterday:


Most of the higher output Porsches are no longer offered with clutch pedal/manual transmissions it seems. Porsche DoppelKupplung (PDK), or Porsche dual-clutch transmission is the only option on some Porsches, including the Carrera S PCNA is trying to tickle my fancy with here. Time & technology marches forwards - you could stick it in full auto in various modes and it'll change gears for you in a fashion anyhow from LMP-LeMans to drivin' Miss Daisy. Fantastic but perhaps saddened a bit with the changing of the guard.

Oh well, still don't see the need for cupholders. Paddle shifts in full manual still need two hands at all times. Driving, as God and Ferry Porsche intended.

Not true...

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

I disagree; the 911 was never positioned or intended as a mass market car. The sales numbers bring this out.

The car clearly designated for the mass market was the Porsche Cayenne SUV. A highly successful move that largely gave Porsche AG the cashflow to survive and prosper as an independent car manufacturer.

Nothing turns in on corner entry like a 911. In a rear engine layout car Porsche braking is every bit as good on the way into apex as the motor is on the way out on corner exit. And the beauty is you can feel this same thing both on a track and also just driving it safely and normally on the street - you give up the speed but the precision is still there provided the driver has the skill in executing the corner. Power steering has nothing to do with it.

I will add one thing to this. After owning 3 x 911's, I can say that no other car feels/drives/reacts/steers the way a 911 does. Once you spend a few hundred miles in one under many different driving conditions, you will not want to drive any other vehicle. It's that good!

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

Not true...

Yes, you are correct and I was in error. I went by the brochure that PCNA sends me.

You know how marketing these days is direct and targeted to a very refined degree? This then is how getting pitched a PDK car by PCNA is disconcerting:

I think of myself as a motorsports performance driving enthusiast driving a 1234567R.

PCNA, through extensive data mining & marketing analytics, sees me as a middle-aged, balding, paunchy, philandering-optional, age-crisis sportscar buyer driving a PRNDL.

Sod it, I'll just buy a Buick.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

Yes, you are correct and I was in error. I went by the brochure that PCNA sends me.

You know how marketing these days is direct and targeted to a very refined degree? This then is how getting pitched a PDK car by PCNA is disconcerting:

I think of myself as a motorsports performance driving enthusiast driving a 1234567R.

PCNA, through extensive data mining & marketing analytics, sees me as a middle-aged, balding, paunchy, philandering-optional, age-crisis sportscar buyer driving a PRNDL.

Sod it, I'll just buy a Buick.

For whatever reason, it turns out that the middle-aged, balding, paunchy, philandering-optional, age-crisis sportscar buying driver want PRNDL. Probably so they have a free hand to grope their age inappropriate girlfriend that they dumped the wife of 25 years for...

Sadly, Porsche makes only about 10% of all their sports cars stick shift versions. And the turbo and GT versions there is no option to even order a stick. I'm not a retro grouch when it comes to too many things and I know a PDK transmission is .1 second faster from 0-60, but for me...a sports car needs to have 3 pedals!

[uber]

I have had both manual and PDK 911's. They are all wonderful. For the 991.1, where all the torque still requires a higher rpm, swapping to manual mode allows me to drive in a more spirited way. In prndl, it drives like a sedate commuter. Kind of.