So, carbon hoops or no?

[Basso69]

Campagnolo Bora 50.
Love them. definitely go faster. And very comfortable.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by redir

They will be noticeably lighter. It's pretty amazing to hold a 50mm deep carbon wheel in your hand and feel how light such a big object looks.

Yes, absolutely true, and you may also think that you're faster. But you won't actually be that much faster than before.

Heck, when I wasn't even in that good shape, I beat a bunch of guys on carbon bikes and carbon wheels up a climb in St. Paul. On a steel bike, steel fork, alloy wheels.

If you ask me, mid section alloy with relatively fewer spokes should provide a small bump over box section 32h wheels, and that bump may be worth the additional $$. Then again, 2003 Michigan Cat 4 state championship road race, all 5 of us finishers got dusted by a guy on a Colnago Master XL with (IIRC) 32 spoke box sections. I know I was on low spoke alloy wheels, think everyone else was on similar.

That's not to say you shouldn't get them! You'll see a benefit! But it will be a small one, and if you break a rim it's a lot more money to replace.

[Clean39T]

Remember you are also asking a Forum that leans to the traditionalist side pretty heavily...

I'm taking someone's advice here though and trying them (finally) by getting some gently used 40mm tubulars that won't lose me much money if I decide they aren't for me.

And I also bought some HED Jet 6+ from CompCyc stacking some discounts to get them for just over $600 shipped. Just waiting for me Shimano freehub to arrive before I give them a whirl.

In the end, I'm betting I'll have: Jet6+ for longer rides and dry crits, Belgium+ for everyday riding/training and wet weather, and the Tubs for rolling road races and hill-climbs.

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky

I've been having an internal debate with myself for a while. Would a non-competitive rider like myself see much of a benefit from carbon rims over nice aluminum wheels? I'm pretty much a club rider and fondo-ist. I have no interest in racing.

I wouldn't get carbon rims. November Bikes has nice comprehensive summary over on their site, but to paraphrase, they will save you 3 watts over the current best alloy clinchers. You can beat that by using latex tubes.
I still race competitively, and use a couple pairs of shamals (C15 and C17) and a pair of carbon 52mm wheels. I would only use the carbons for races, and would have to study the weather leading up the race for any chance of rain. All this talk of improved braking for carbon rims in rain is BS. They suck. You have no brakes in the rain. You would stop faster dragging your feet. All training, training races, and half my races have all been on the shamals.
Alloy rims look better too. You get more street cred as well. A win is a touch more impressive when gliding on alloy rims.
I would try a pair of those new AForce AL33 rims and some latex tubes. Take the $1K you save and invest it in the stock market. Two years from now, you'll still have a great pair of wheels and enough cash to buy a nice custom frame.

[sitzmark]

Find a free (or modest $) demo day and try some "carbon hoops" for yourself. Only way to know if right for you.

Will you benefit from carbon hoops? Depends on what benefit means. Carbon isn't magic - different carbon wheelsets will have different physical/ride properties depending on rim construction, spokes, hubs, tires. "Carbon" is too generic a term to cover the MANY difference between carbon wheelsets.

Generically speaking a deep section carbon wheel will have a different feel than a box section alu wheel. Will a deep section carbon wheelset make you measurably faster ... not if the hub bearings have significant drag. Apples to apples important for a quantitative answer.

[m4rk540]

I ride a set of 38mm Kinlins. They feel somewhat sluggish in stop and go riding but they're as fast as any carbon wheel I've ridden for descending. That said there is a significant weight penalty which is offset by piece of mind. I don't have to worry about destroying a $900 rim. I believe I picked up my Kinlins for $40 per rim.

[R3awak3n]

I also did not mention but I think rider size really matters. If you are heavier than 200 lbs I would not recommend carbon, more weight to stop, more heat and also worst braking. They are fun and I do like the sound they make and the enve 45s I had were some of my favorite wheels I am not going to lie and I would buy carbon wheels again in a heart beat, for disc brakes. Rim, I just need as much braking power as I can have, I am a big dude.

As far as weight, yes carbon is lighter but you can easily build a set of alloy clinchers for less than 1500g with the right parts.

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

I wouldn't get carbon rims. November Bikes has nice comprehensive summary over on their site, but to paraphrase, they will save you 3 watts over the current best alloy clinchers. You can beat that by using latex tubes.
I still race competitively, and use a couple pairs of shamals (C15 and C17) and a pair of carbon 52mm wheels. I would only use the carbons for races, and would have to study the weather leading up the race for any chance of rain. All this talk of improved braking for carbon rims in rain is BS. They suck. You have no brakes in the rain. You would stop faster dragging your feet. All training, training races, and half my races have all been on the shamals.
Alloy rims look better too. You get more street cred as well. A win is a touch more impressive when gliding on alloy rims.
I would try a pair of those new AForce AL33 rims and some latex tubes. Take the $1K you save and invest it in the stock market. Two years from now, you'll still have a great pair of wheels and enough cash to buy a nice custom frame.

Shamals are damned impressive, and 1400 grams or less. Boras are what 1300? i can spit out 100g right now. so are carbon hoops lighter? enough to matter? i have no doubt that in a crit situation on flat ground with no wind in a pack the deep wheeels would give some advantage, but after riding carbon hoops for a season, for my riding (solo on gravel and crap pavement with rain half a year) they make little no no sense at all, which is why i have gone carbon, and now back to light aluminum, its just so much better to be in a place of simplicity.

i am also very happy with my Pacenti V2 rims, they o not give up much in weight or speed either.

[makoti]

If you have the money, go ahead. I have Pacenti/WI & Enve 3.4 wheels. For flat stuff, the Enves seem faster. For rolling, about the same. For serious mountain descending, I use the Pacenti.
Remember, most of the advantage carbon has is at 20+mph, so figure that into your riding. Plus, you didn't say, but would you be swapping them out with other wheels? Brake pads become an issue. You can get dual compound pads, but I use official Enve pads (because they are under warranty) & swapping them out is a pain.
They make the bike look cool. They make me feel fast sometimes. I'd buy them again.

[Tickdoc]

Love my enve 3.4s w dt Swiss 240s. Fast, light, stunning looking. They stop like $hit, and even worse when it's wet, but I still love em.

If you value stopping distance over looks, then neutrons, shamals give you two more price points and fast wheels.

I think my neutrons are only .02 seconds slower than the enves and I paid 1/10th as much for them.

Shamals are on my short list to try next.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky

Would a non-competitive rider like myself see much of a benefit from carbon rims over nice aluminum wheels? I'm pretty much a club rider and fondo-ist. I have no interest in racing.

Some data points from the perspective of a guy who's coached a 12-week cooperative group cycling skills class for our bike club for the past 9 or 10 years...iow, our curriculum is geared to the proverbial non-competitive fast club rider/fondo-ist.

Every year we get at least one or two students in the program with some totally badass swanky carbon wheels. Do these folks see any benefit? Well... there's certainly no correlation between Who Has The Carbon Hoops and Who Is The Smoothest, Safest, "Best" Rider In The Paceline. There's also no correlation between Who Has The Carbon Hoops and Who Is The Strongest/Fastest Rider In The Paceline (though admittedly that's kind of antithetical to our purpose, so we tend to view that sort of behavior as a red flag rather than an asset ...unless they're also smooth, safe, & cooperative, in which case, Yay! but again, no correlation).

Y'know what sort of correlation we do see all the time, year after year? There's a very overt direct correlation between Who Has The Carbon Hoops and Who Can't Stop For Schidt In The Rain.

And there's a very overt direct correlation between Who Has The Carbon Hoops and Whose Bike Makes The Most Annoying Sound When Braking (regardless of whether it's raining or not).

Other than that, I got nuthin'.

[Hls2k6]

I've put over 10k miles on carbon clinchers each of the past 3 seasons & I am on pace to do so again this year. I train and race on them in all weather.

While I can't comment on whether they're a good idea for you personally, I'll share two things. The first you could argue is just my opinion, although I'd disagree. The second is objective fact.

First, there is a vast difference between a high-end, wide carbon wheel with a textured brake track (like a current gen Zipp or Enve) and earlier iterations (like the Enve 45, which I raced for a full season). They're light years better in crosswinds and wet-weather braking.

Second, when compared to a box rim & mid-level tire, a set of 50mm wheels (Zipp 404 or Enve 4.5) and low rolling-resistance tires (Turbo Cotton or similar), objectively improves performance at threshold to a degree that rivals the improvement I currently make in an entire season described above training with a great coach.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by sitzmark

Find a free (or modest $) demo day and try some "carbon hoops" for yourself. Only way to know if right for you.

Great advice. WesternBikeWorks here in Portland rents Carbon race wheels. Many triathlon shops do. Maybe just give that a go and form your own opinions?

[regularguy412]

IMO -- you'll like 'em.

Shop around and catch a good set on sale. Mebbe, say,, last year's model, etc?

NOS don't go 'bad' just sitting on the shelf.

I still ride aluminum hoops once or twice a week on my backup bike. But I ride my carbon clinchers or carbon tubulars the other 3 or 4 days.

The cool part I like about the most recent (within last year or two) improvements in carbon wheel braking is that it's REALLLY good. My carbon tubular Easton EC90SL's (2010 model) that I rode as a daily driver from 2011 through 2015 had decent braking when brand new. Now the braking surface is a bit worn. Still safe to ride, as they're tubulars, but I can tell they don't have quite the stopping power they once had. Was using the suggested SwissStop yellows.

Conversely, my now 2 year old Mercury M5 55mm carbon clinchers brake like aluminum rims, but they are full carbon. They have a basalt-impregnated braking surface and it WORKS! -- even in the wet. I've paired them with SwissStop Black Prince pads and never looked back. They went thru a brief period of minor squealing, but that was easily remedied by just toeing in the pads again.

Look for a good set on sale. My Mercurys 'listed' for about $2,400 but I got them on sale in December 2015 for $809.00 from Competitive Cyclist (no affiliation here).

Mike in AR

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

I wouldn't get carbon rims. November Bikes has nice comprehensive summary over on their site, but to paraphrase, they will save you 3 watts over the current best alloy clinchers. You can beat that by using latex tubes

Thanks for the mention. Just to make it 100% clear, it's not carbon clinchers in general that will gain you 3w over a top alloy rim, it's a rim that's as fast as a 404. 303s tested as equivalent to Al33s, for example.

With profoundly lower cost, generally equal or lower weight, better braking, and no risk of heat related issues, our position on it is clear but anyone may have a different take and that's cool too.