A Note from the Mods: Be part of the solution, not the problem

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

You have no idea the number of complaints we get about topics, tone, users that we are asked to "deal with". Your comment above actually generated some.

This is not to inject myself into your dialogue with beeatnik as he is fully capable of making his own case.

I ask all for your forbearance in advance as to the length of this post but it is neccesary and I will try to be concise and not waste a reader's time.

I disagree with your reasoning and response quoted here if this is the sole impetus by which you, as a Mod, take action to investigate, permit or curtail the progression or discourse in any thread. It is incorrect to simply respond to the complaints that beseech you to "deal with" something someone has read on the forum - you as a Mod must also exercise independent editorial judgement as to the nature, propriety and decorum of the content you are responsible to moderate.

To do otherwise is simply to react to the gripes of a general readership that often responds to the emotion from what they think they have read, what they disagree with and don't want to hear or a plethora of other things that drive them to the point of complaint in notifying a Mod. Some of these complaints may well be groundless. To elevate these responses as the sole mechanism in moderating content on this forum is a mistake because it will lower the level of content, by definition, to that of the lowest common denominator.

I would urge the complaint to be rather voiced and posted in public. This assures transparency and also allows everyone to view and judge the basis and validity of the complaint. I can assure anyone that if I disagree with anyone I can tell ya why and if my reasoning was ridiculous and gave me public embarrassment then I'll take my lumps and hopefully learn something for next time.

My hope is that this forum maintain and sustain a breadth of diversity for all the quirks, vagaries, knowledge and opinions evidenced in this forum's readership. A lotta folks here are capable and inviting to more complex topics and discussions and are fully aware in where and how to draw the line without going over it. Frankly, it is self evident given to whom this is capable of doing this simply in the articulation or depth & substance of their posts. There are lots of different conversations at lots of different levels all going on at the same time in this forum. Anyone has the freedom to join or not to join in. Anyone has the freedom to read or not to read.

All the Mods here do much more than corral a buncha bike nuts on a forum. The Mods also control a medium giving outlet to freedom of expression and ideas. This forum cover much more ground than just biker but the kinship started with bikes and the quality of the readership branched and extended it outwards from there. Because we as a collective readership are capable of covering a varied and diverse path of ground. Please allow this to continue.

Thank you for your time.

[Bruce K]

Thank you for your thoughts.

There is way more that goes into the decisions we make when moderating this forum. Please note that I said "we" as we do not make these decisions in a vacuum. We are a team.

Complaints will not be made public when sent to us in private. That would only serve to raise the level of rancor.

We have decided to keep these hot button issues to a minimum here based on multiple factors and that is not likely to change in the near future.

Name calling and insults are the fastest way to a timeout or a ban.

We feel fortunate that the list of folks that can't seem to understand this is small. What amazes us is how these folks are both repeat offenders and are considered nice people by those who know them personally. It's almost Jekyl and Hyde.

Again, please read or re-read the statement that started this thread.

BK

[54ny77]

That's what I can never understand on internet forums; people say things they'd never say to someone's face (for the most part).

I would argue the proliferation of electronic communication (email, web forums, etc.) and the anonymity it usually enables, has resulted in a meaningful degradation of interpersonal communication in general. I see it all the time in the workplace, across most age groups but especially among the younger set (call it 30 and under).

I can't tell you how many times I've picked up the phone to call teams of people to stop it with the email (on group cc'd messages covering a hot topic), and instead book a conference room to talk something out and find a solution, in person. The response/reluctance to do so is almost like pulling teeth. And even when meetings in person take place, it's almost as though people sit there wanting to type their thoughts on their phone and distribute to all, instead of verbalizing it in a coherent fashion.

Originally Posted by Bruce K

What amazes us is how these folks are both repeat offenders and are considered nice people by those who know them personally. It's almost Jekyl and Hyde.

BK

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

That's what I can never understand on internet forums; people say things they'd never say to someone's face (for the most part).

Everything I say in person about Sagan usually involves swear words.

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

That's what I can never understand on internet forums; people say things they'd never say to someone's face (for the most part).

That largely depends on the interpretation of whom was addressed. Sometimes there really isn't any insult, they just take it that way. Or, any over the top feigned outrage and insult is always the use of the hissy fit strategy - it pivots the conversation away from the sayings or actions of what was being discussed and makes the focus of conversation to be something or someone else.

Characters portrayed by women on old TV shows would use making a public fuss as a method of getting their way - it was usually referred to as "making a scene". Said during a time reflective of more polite public decorum.

The puffery in the false bravado in the dare "you wouldn't say this to my face" is just the saving pride component from having to use the hissy fit strategy to begin with. I can't speak for how others handle debate, though probably poorly, but I can promise you I can say anything I have said against anyone's argument to their face. Insult is never need to tear down an argument if you know what you're doin' - anybody that knows how to make an argument would never need to embarrass themselves by using personal insult to make a point. It just isn't done. If somebody thinks they've been insulted by somebody who knows how to make an argument then it is because the subtlety in the retort went over their head.

What 54ny77 said in not wholly incorrect. But being this is a thread talking about interactions that happen on the web I don't think it is correct to reduce the way things can happen to all something as simple and akin to a middle school recess period brawl.

[rwerkudara]

Just out of curiosity, how diverse are the Mods? There has been a lot of push at my company (like many others) towards more diverse (sex/race) management/board as it improves performance, etc. Could this be part of the solution?