Shifter preference - Potenza or Chorus?

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

All 11s Campagnolo stuff intercompatible, including Potenza and the stuff above it. 'Racing groups'...means nada.

If I was going to race, and I'm not, I'd get a cheap aluminum rig with Veloce or Centaur cuz my 'racing' is normally a crash fest.

Intercompatible at what level? A compatibility, meaning as if the entire bike were Chorus or Potenza? B or A-, like S11 cassette on C11 shifting system or vice versa? Or C compatible, like jerry-rigging C10 to shift S9 or something like that?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

Intercompatible at what level? A compatibility, meaning as if the entire bike were Chorus or Potenza? B or A-, like S11 cassette on C11 shifting system or vice versa? Or C compatible, like jerry-rigging C10 to shift S9 or something like that?

Means if you want to use Chorus shifters on a Potenza everything else..install and ride..or Potenza shifters on a Chorus all else..go do that..it's not that complicated. No 'jerry' rigging at all..jerry doesn't ride bikes.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by Bostic

Honest question on Chorus and better. I've had both 10 speed era and newer Gumby style levers and thumb buttons. When doing absolute maximum effort puke one's guts out style sprints and trying to go one cog harder at a time, I don't have the finesse in my right thumb to just go one gear, 19 to 17, 17 to 15, 15 to 14, etc. I push the button too hard and jump a few cogs which messes up my rhythm. Due to design, I don't have this issue with Shimano STI or Sram levers. Am I the only one? Being left handed maybe?

True for me in the limited cyclocross racing I've done. Bike is bouncing around, and I'm cross-eyed from being in the red zone a bit too long... the fine muscle control in my hand finds it very difficult to up or downshift just one cog.

Actually had Shimano brifters on my CX bike for that reason.
This was just before Campy came out with their 'cheaper' Escape/Powershift feature on their lower line gruppos... back in the golden years when even the Mirage level ergos could 'dump' several cogs.

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Go Chorus. The ability to mash both thumbs down and come out in the small ring in a roughly comparable gear is a thing of beauty when the road goes vertical.

This. You're right where you want to be while those around you are clicking away...

[Bostic]

Originally Posted by coffeecake

I am in the same situation as you. For what it's worth, I have yet to be in a race situation where being able to accurately shift one cog whilst sprinting would have made a difference in my race results. This is over 25 race days this year, but then again I am not a field sprinter and I don't have great results.

I love Campy, but I do miss the ability to precisely shift one cog while throwing the bike back and forth in a sprint like I could with my SRAM setup. For that reason, I'm considering Potenza shifters for my next race bike.

For me it's not racing but just pushing myself. It's less than 1% of my entire riding. For example there is one longer street in between stop signs near my home where I'm trying to finally hit 32mph from a dead stop. In the latter part of my 'field destroying sprint' my thumb's finesse ends up like jello. I actually would like to one day try the rare 10 speed Record Red logo with the uber-strength springs.

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Go Chorus. The ability to mash both thumbs down and come out in the small ring in a roughly comparable gear is a thing of beauty when the road goes vertical.

Some World Tour sprinters preferred the Escape (now Powershift) mechanism when it came out for the gear specificity issue.

The two thumb button mash when you get to a climb is something the other groups can't offer. I find it especially nice with a compact crank. Well maybe the new DI2 can but it won't feel as good.

Originally Posted by beeatnik

The most tactile difference I experience is the soft or cheap feel of the Potenza lever. The thing feels so delicate that I worry about snapping it off with my bear paws (especially, the left shifter). If you have the Chorus shifters, stick with them and go all Potenza everywhere else. The stuff works and looks great, IMO. And, ya, being able to dump 5 cogs is legit.

I had to look at a picture again of the Potenza shifter. The alloy version doesn't have an alloy shifter paddle. I'll have to try a Potenza in person to see if it is anywhere near as bad as the mush of the original 2009 Gumby Centaur. Even a well worn in 7800 lever had more oomph to it as the clicks were so soft on downshifts. I was able to acquire the rare EC-CE110 retrofit but it never worked right.

[p nut]

Thank you, everyone. I'll go Chorus levers and keep the Potenza as back ups.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by Bostic

I actually would like to one day try the rare 10 speed Record Red logo with the uber-strength springs.

Have 'em on my Peg.

FWIW, by no means a day and night difference.

[Alan]

Anyone know if the new 11 speed Centaur groups are for sale in the US? Haven't seen them on any of the US sites and only on a few of the UK sites.

Alan

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Alan

Anyone know if the new 11 speed Centaur groups are for sale in the US? Haven't seen them on any of the US sites and only on a few of the UK sites.

Alan

Not yet, I'd say not till early fall. Intro at interbike.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Means if you want to use Chorus shifters on a Potenza everything else..install and ride..or Potenza shifters on a Chorus all else..go do that..it's not that complicated. No 'jerry' rigging at all..jerry doesn't ride bikes.

I realize I'm being pedantic, but that is not an acceptable answer.

I asked a very specific question. How inter-compatible? As good as Chorus-Chorus or Potenza-Potenza, just slightly behind but acceptable even in the long term, or a kludge?

I got into a bit of an argument on the MPLS bike trading Facebook page where this guy posted a Gunnar Sport with 10s Campy, and he swears that it will work "no problem" with Shimano (speeds not specified, but I suppose I assumed 10s Shimano). I said hang on, that's not quite true, but there's an easy fix for this (Jtek), which he didn't like ...

So, OK. I am a huge PITA. When the mods said be part of the solution, not part of the problem ... that was probably directed at me. That's fine. I don't care. I asked a specific question. You didn't answer, you said just go ride it. Well, you can put an S10 cassette/wheel into a C10 shifting system and just go ride it, and you may be able to get it to acceptable adjustment in the short term. But I don't think it will work so well in the long term - I know I tried S9 cassette on C9 shifting, and it deteriorated past the point of acceptability after a while, and I'm pretty sure C10 and S10 won't be much better. And the whole reason I asked you was that Campy has a lot of BS in its documentation about how mixing stuff will lead to malfunctions, accidents, and death, and if there's one person who would know that they're spouting BS, it's you.

[merlincustom1]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I realize I'm being pedantic, but that is not an acceptable answer.

I asked a very specific question. How inter-compatible? As good as Chorus-Chorus or Potenza-Potenza, just slightly behind but acceptable even in the long term, or a kludge?

I got into a bit of an argument on the MPLS bike trading Facebook page where this guy posted a Gunnar Sport with 10s Campy, and he swears that it will work "no problem" with Shimano (speeds not specified, but I suppose I assumed 10s Shimano). I said hang on, that's not quite true, but there's an easy fix for this (Jtek), which he didn't like ...

So, OK. I am a huge PITA. When the mods said be part of the solution, not part of the problem ... that was probably directed at me. That's fine. I don't care. I asked a specific question. You didn't answer, you said just go ride it. Well, you can put an S10 cassette/wheel into a C10 shifting system and just go ride it, and you may be able to get it to acceptable adjustment in the short term. But I don't think it will work so well in the long term - I know I tried S9 cassette on C9 shifting, and it deteriorated past the point of acceptability after a while, and I'm pretty sure C10 and S10 won't be much better. And the whole reason I asked you was that Campy has a lot of BS in its documentation about how mixing stuff will lead to malfunctions, accidents, and death, and if there's one person who would know that they're spouting BS, it's you.

Sounds like you already knew the answer to your own question when you posted the query. And you're out of order in attacking the Ancient Nightshade. It's just bikes.

[choke]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

Well, you can put an S10 cassette/wheel into a C10 shifting system and just go ride it, and you may be able to get it to acceptable adjustment in the short term. But I don't think it will work so well in the long term - I know I tried S9 cassette on C9 shifting, and it deteriorated past the point of acceptability after a while, and I'm pretty sure C10 and S10 won't be much better.

I have Chorus or Centaur 10sp shifters/derailleurs on a few bikes and they are all running Veloce 10sp cassettes. They shift just as well now as they did the day that I installed them....perfectly.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I realize I'm being pedantic, but that is not an acceptable answer.

I asked a very specific question. How inter-compatible? As good as Chorus-Chorus or Potenza-Potenza, just slightly behind but acceptable even in the long term, or a kludge?

I got into a bit of an argument on the MPLS bike trading Facebook page where this guy posted a Gunnar Sport with 10s Campy, and he swears that it will work "no problem" with Shimano (speeds not specified, but I suppose I assumed 10s Shimano). I said hang on, that's not quite true, but there's an easy fix for this (Jtek), which he didn't like ...

So, OK. I am a huge PITA. When the mods said be part of the solution, not part of the problem ... that was probably directed at me. That's fine. I don't care. I asked a specific question. You didn't answer, you said just go ride it. Well, you can put an S10 cassette/wheel into a C10 shifting system and just go ride it, and you may be able to get it to acceptable adjustment in the short term. But I don't think it will work so well in the long term - I know I tried S9 cassette on C9 shifting, and it deteriorated past the point of acceptability after a while, and I'm pretty sure C10 and S10 won't be much better. And the whole reason I asked you was that Campy has a lot of BS in its documentation about how mixing stuff will lead to malfunctions, accidents, and death, and if there's one person who would know that they're spouting BS, it's you.

he answered your question clearly and trust me, he has build a few campy bikes.

its all inter compatible when it comes to the same speed. All 11 sp (post 2015 since we are talking potenza here) stuff works fine with each other. CHORUS CHORUS, POTENZA POTENZA, CHORUS POTENZA, RECORD POTENZA, CHORUS SUPER RECORD, ect ect ect.

Its simple as that. There are other combos that work, 10 speed crank on 11 speed for example.

If you just mix those, you can just go out and ride, no jerry rigging necessary. Forget campys literature, but its tried and true around here that all is intercompatible and thats what old p was saying.


My last campy bike has.... athena mid cage RD, super record FD, Right shifter is record 11, left shifter is chorus 10 and cassette is sram 11 speed 11-32 all working great (as good as my 2015+ full chorus groupset)

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I realize I'm being pedantic, but that is not an acceptable answer.

I asked a very specific question. How inter-compatible? As good as Chorus-Chorus or Potenza-Potenza, just slightly behind but acceptable even in the long term, or a kludge?

I got into a bit of an argument on the MPLS bike trading Facebook page where this guy posted a Gunnar Sport with 10s Campy, and he swears that it will work "no problem" with Shimano (speeds not specified, but I suppose I assumed 10s Shimano). I said hang on, that's not quite true, but there's an easy fix for this (Jtek), which he didn't like ...

So, OK. I am a huge PITA. When the mods said be part of the solution, not part of the problem ... that was probably directed at me. That's fine. I don't care. I asked a specific question. You didn't answer, you said just go ride it. Well, you can put an S10 cassette/wheel into a C10 shifting system and just go ride it, and you may be able to get it to acceptable adjustment in the short term. But I don't think it will work so well in the long term - I know I tried S9 cassette on C9 shifting, and it deteriorated past the point of acceptability after a while, and I'm pretty sure C10 and S10 won't be much better. And the whole reason I asked you was that Campy has a lot of BS in its documentation about how mixing stuff will lead to malfunctions, accidents, and death, and if there's one person who would know that they're spouting BS, it's you.

Not sure where you are going with this, very confusing to me. Back to OP, yes, he can use Chorus shifters with an otherwise Potenza group, w/o any 'jerry rigged' stuff, and it works as well as Potenza shifters..Nothing like mixing shimano stuff with Camag stuff, like a shimano rear der with Campag shifers and stuff.

I asked a very specific question. How inter-compatible? As good as Chorus-Chorus or Potenza-Potenza, just slightly behind but acceptable even in the long term, or a kludge?

I got into a bit of an argument on the MPLS bike trading Facebook page

No kludge, etc...if ya want to argue, sorry, not gonna argue.

If you don't understand what I'm saying..oh well.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not sure where you are going with this, very confusing to me. Back to OP, yes, he can use Chorus shifters with an otherwise Potenza group, w/o any 'jerry rigged' stuff, and it works as well as Potenza shifters..Nothing like mixing shimano stuff with Camag stuff, like a shimano rear der with Campag shifers and stuff.

No kludge, etc...if ya want to argue, sorry, not gonna argue.

If you don't understand what I'm saying..oh well.

OK, the follies of communication over the internet. My bad.

If you put a Shimano cassette on a Campy drivetrain, or vice versa, the cog-cog spacing is off by something like 0.02mm from spec. Over the long term, you might get something like lazier upshifting than you would by running pure Campy or pure Shimano. But it's within tolerance, and most people can just go ride it without worry.

What I hear you saying is that Chorus shifters + Potenza derailleurs will work just as well as Potenza shifters + Potenza derailleurs, or nearly as well - on par with the case above.

If that's the case, then I too will gladly consider Chorus shifters + Potenza everything else. Campy's BS notwithstanding.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

OK, the follies of communication over the internet. My bad.

If you put a Shimano cassette on a Campy drivetrain, or vice versa, the cog-cog spacing is off by something like 0.02mm from spec. Over the long term, you might get something like lazier upshifting than you would by running pure Campy or pure Shimano. But it's within tolerance, and most people can just go ride it without worry.

What I hear you saying is that Chorus shifters + Potenza derailleurs will work just as well as Potenza shifters + Potenza derailleurs, or nearly as well - on par with the case above.

If that's the case, then I too will gladly consider Chorus shifters + Potenza everything else. Campy's BS notwithstanding.

And so? No part of this was using a shimano spaced 10s or 9s cogset and Campag 10 or 9s shifters..If you want good shifting with Campag 10s and have a shimano rear wheel, use a shimano 9s cogset..CTR cog to CTR cog differences less than Campag 10s and shimano 10s. And if you have Campag 11s and have a shimano 11s wheel..use a shimano 11s cogset..Campag says that's bad also.

Must be an echo in here.

Indeed