O.T. "What the Health"

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jumphigher

You're definitely behind the times if you think those are fad diets. I've been a vegetarian for 30+ years. No fad diets for me. Oh and.. what is your definition of 'plenty healthy', exactly?

C'mon..I agree vegan or vegetarian isn't a 'fad diet', but many people are healthy, even by your standards and aren't vegan/vegetarian. You aren't automatically 'healthier' if you are vegan/vegetarian, particularly when you know nothing about the gent who said he was 'plenty healthy'..No reason to get 'righteous' about it. Personal choice and all things in moderation, even moderation...IMHO, of course.

BTW-I eat little to no cow, just fish, chicken, lots of fruit, veggies, no milk, a little cheese, few eggs, ride a bunch..I'm 'plenty healthy'...

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Tony

R3awak3n, going shopping Tuesday, excited about this direction. I would say that 65% of my diet is plant based. What is the good stuff, foods you would recommend? Also, doing research online regarding going vegan.
Thanks

I mean, tons of good veggies, quinoa is awesome. I still eat a bit of bread, all whole wheat (I have replaced everything with whole wheat if I am going to eat it).

Also my first 2 weeks I had a bit of vegan cheese (a lot of it is nasty so I gave that up). However there are a few products that I like and use, the ingredient list is clean, no preservatives or ingridients I never heard of so I continue to use them (moderately). This thing called basilcota, its a "cheese" spread. Its pretty much spreadable nuts. Its fantastic. Also most things from mikonos creamery is amazing (they have butter, and cheese). Again, I don't eat a lot of this but I have it just in case I have a craving/they taste good.

[classtimesailer]

The research supporting a vegan diet is piling up.
https://nutritionfacts.org/
There is big bucks and a huge PR machine behind making war and selling animals as food. It is understandable that most people think it's a good idea.

Somewhat cycling related, I've gone years with what seemed random bouts of nighttime leg cramps that were not associated with duration, intensity or frequency of workouts. Now I am convinced that these cramps are associated with dinners that include meat.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by classtimesailer

The research supporting a vegan diet is piling up.
https://nutritionfacts.org/
There is big bucks and a huge PR machine behind making war and selling animals as food. It is understandable that most people think it's a good idea.

Somewhat cycling related, I've gone years with what seemed random bouts of nighttime leg cramps that were not associated with duration, intensity or frequency of workouts. Now I am convinced that these cramps are associated with dinners that include meat.

Thats a great resource. Dr Greger is great, some great stuff on youtube as well.

[ptourkin]

Science and evidenced based vegans have serious problems with What the Health. It overstates the conclusions of many of the studies it cites and is susceptible to debunking.

I've been vegan for over 12 years and have seen numerous people come and go after they seized on sensationalized health claims only to leave when they found something else or became bored.

Here is a perspective by a respected vegan Registered Dietitian/MPH:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2017/07/a-...h-documentary/

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by livingminimal

Milk was my last holdout for the longest time. When you're ready to quit it, you're ready but I'm such a coffee snob. Switching to almond and trying to find the right blend for me hasn't ever been easy. It's ok. I just became a huge fan of straight up Long Blacks.

realistically speaking, what is the harm of a few ounces of milk in your coffee if it is something you enjoy? i get the whole idea of plant based diet, etc etc - buy surely, if your diet is otherwise completely vegan - a couple ounces of milk in coffee isnt something that's going to effect your body one way or another.

am i right, or is it just the principal of the matter?

non argumentative, serious question.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

realistically speaking, what is the harm of a few ounces of milk in your coffee if it is something you enjoy? i get the whole idea of plant based diet, etc etc - buy surely, if your diet is otherwise completely vegan - a couple ounces of milk in coffee isnt something that's going to effect your body one way or another.

am i right, or is it just the principal of the matter?

non argumentative, serious question.

Animal rights aside, I don't think there is any harm in that and if there is, it is minimal to the point that it does not even matter (unless your body does not process milk well and makes you feel sick).

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

realistically speaking, what is the harm of a few ounces of milk in your coffee if it is something you enjoy? i get the whole idea of plant based diet, etc etc - buy surely, if your diet is otherwise completely vegan - a couple ounces of milk in coffee isnt something that's going to effect your body one way or another.

am i right, or is it just the principal of the matter?

non argumentative, serious question.

This is one of the problems with the more sensational movies like What the Health - you are correct. Even the China Study (which is frequently misrepresented) does not support the contention that a 100% vegan diet is better than a 96% vegan diet - this wasn't tested because the participants were not 100% vegan.

For those of us who are vegan for the animals, this isn't a concern but if one is doing it for health, the evidence does not support a contention that occasional use of animal products is harmful.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

Science and evidenced based vegans have serious problems with What the Health. It overstates the conclusions of many of the studies it cites and is susceptible to debunking.

I've been vegan for over 12 years and have seen numerous people come and go after they seized on sensationalized health claims only to leave when they found something else or became bored.

Here is a perspective by a respected vegan Registered Dietitian/MPH:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2017/07/a-...h-documentary/

of course they have problems with it and of course there are some holes in the plot. There will be disagreement no matter what and that is fine. That said, there are a lot of good things in the movie as well. Just like everyhing, don't just watch the movie and stop at that, research, research, research, there are tons of good sources out there.

One thing is true, at least for me, I have lost 10 lbs and my blood pressure has dropped significantly (trying to get off BP meds that I have been on for a year), this is just a month of eating healthy, plant based diet. So to me, this is working great and I am going to keep on it.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

realistically speaking, what is the harm of a few ounces of milk in your coffee if it is something you enjoy? i get the whole idea of plant based diet, etc etc - buy surely, if your diet is otherwise completely vegan - a couple ounces of milk in coffee isnt something that's going to effect your body one way or another.

am i right, or is it just the principal of the matter?

non argumentative, serious question.

Oh I get it, for sure. and it's something I've had to consider. I am not the longest-tenured vegan by any stretch. Ptourkin was actually one of my influences to be completely vegan. For a long while I was jokingly calling myself a "meat reductionist" and trying to be moderate. I haven't touched beef for years, very sparingly with pork, and would only have poultry a couple of days per week. I indulged in milk and fairly regularly with cheese, but not to what anyone would call "excess." to use OP's term, I thought I was healthy, too.

I think for me (again, this is for me, I am not preaching - talking about my feelings on it), I was just ready to eliminate it all completely. I think the idea of consuming something produced by another animal is really disgusting. It isn't meant for my body. There is no need for my health (and certainly not from lack of protein ) to consume flesh, and I think the idea of drinking the milk of another animal which was intended for their babies is gross.

At first, the reasons I went Vegan were simple; my mother died young (57) of kidney cancer and I know, without question, her cancer was directly linked to her eating habits. Now, she consumed a lot of Pepsi, which veganism doesn't solve (I don't drink soda except for the occasional pure-cane Blue Sky or Mexican Coke) but she would have classified herself "moderate" too I bet, even though she ate tons of processed stuff (but its chicken!) and loads of animal products at every turn. So I decided awhile back that I was headed down the path of changing my diet to respond to that. You simply cant argue that a plant-based diet ISNT more healthy than one that includes animal products. Theres literally no science to back that. There are a lot of good indicators that animal-based diets can be completely unhealthy for you. Spicy Quinoa and lettuce never blocked anyones arteries, to the best of my knowledge.

Also, while health was the main reason, the bigAG industry is so ****ed up, from animal welfare to human rights, that that's become more of a reason for me not to participate. I didn't care much about animals at first but when you study up on how they're treated and how the workers are treated (did you know slaughterhouse workers have a higher rate of Domestic Violence at home because violence in general becomes more normalized and they're desensitized to it?) it's just a big system I do not want to participate in.

I don't preach to anyone else or tell them what they should or shouldn't do; its their journey. My move to veganism was a long time coming, I'm thankful I'm finally here, and Ill tell anyone that wants to listen about my experience with it or reasons for it.

[livingminimal]

Also, I think WTH is childish in a lot of ways (calling receptionists and demanding answers? dumb.) and somewhat sensationalized (I don't buy the whole "one egg is 5 ciggys" thing). Also, the athletes interviewed, come on, there is natural physiology there that I don't have.

but I do know that True North is a real place and people really do get very healthy there and quit a lot of their medications and are freed of their ailments. I know eating animals is unnecessary, and I know that when my 8 and 5 year old saw the puss draining from a cow's leg, or the stacks of dead pigs, or chickens being assembled with saline on an assembly line, they both never wanted to eat animals again. I never pushed anything on them, it was their choice, and that was reinforced over and over that they can decide for themselves.

They brought cheese pizza to the vegan restaurant we ate at yesterday and were talking about being vegetarians while their parents and aunt and uncle were all vegan. It was pretty cute.

[fuzzalow]

Gosh, compared to some of the sentiments and self-discipline expressed in this thread, I am downright heathen, ignorant and slothful. And I truly don't say that as sarcasm mocking of those the do, live and eat in the manner in reverse of how I do.

I eat by the standard of all things in moderation. Out of convenience and laziness, I even succumb to eating from McDonald's on occasion fully aware that it is garbage. Other than blood pressure issues I gotta watch, I am healthy.

I dunno if, when and how something flicks on in one's consciousness that brings on a vegan/vegetarian change of lifestyle but I certainly can understand and respect its power & potential to alter one's own life. If anyone could speak to that thought process I'd be interested to hear about it.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

This is one of the problems with the more sensational movies like What the Health - you are correct. Even the China Study (which is frequently misrepresented) does not support the contention that a 100% vegan diet is better than a 96% vegan diet - this wasn't tested because the participants were not 100% vegan.

For those of us who are vegan for the animals, this isn't a concern but if one is doing it for health, the evidence does not support a contention that occasional use of animal products is harmful.

to me its about habit and some of us, when you eat a bit, you end up eating a lot (cheese for me, I am one of those all or nothing people). So yes, if you can moderately eat cheese/eggs/milk then by all means but some people have problems with it. Also, cheesy is addictive, so a little bit here and there can make you increase your consumption of it (not everyone is like this, but I am, I can't do it, when I buy some, I am on it lol)

[zap]

I'm reading studies that suggest one should continue eating (if not a bit more) meat as one gets older.

http://www.active.com/articles/maste...older-athletes

I don't eat meat every day and try to eat less cured artisanal meats. More focus on "super" foods and source. Goods from some countries are suspect......local best.

My system might change in the future and will adjust (hopefully) accordingly.

[classtimesailer]

It needs to be pointed out that registered dietitians get their credentials from an organization wholly funded by the national diary council and a couple of food processors and supplement manufacturers. http://www.eatrightpro.org/resources...t-our-sponsors

Originally Posted by ptourkin

Science and evidenced based vegans have serious problems with What the Health. It overstates the conclusions of many of the studies it cites and is susceptible to debunking.

I've been vegan for over 12 years and have seen numerous people come and go after they seized on sensationalized health claims only to leave when they found something else or became bored.

Here is a perspective by a respected vegan Registered Dietitian/MPH:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2017/07/a-...h-documentary/