Shifter preference - Potenza or Chorus?

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

And so? No part of this was using a shimano spaced 10s or 9s cogset and Campag 10 or 9s shifters..If you want good shifting with Campag 10s and have a shimano rear wheel, use a shimano 9s cogset..CTR cog to CTR cog differences less than Campag 10s and shimano 10s. And if you have Campag 11s and have a shimano 11s wheel..use a shimano 11s cogset..Campag says that's bad also.

Must be an echo in here.

Indeed

I am fine with running mixes of components that aren't 100% compatible, as long as they're close enough. I deem S11 cassette with C11 shifting to be close enough.

I was trying to draw you out about how Potenza derailleurs + Chorus shifters compared to that level of compatibility, in your experience, or in your opinion. Same? Better? A bit worse, but still close enough to work well?

Telling me to just ride something is not something I appreciate. I respect your knowledge greatly. But, I don't know that you have mixed Potenza derailleurs with Chorus shifters and
run them over the long term. You also didn't specifically address the issue of the different RD return spring tension between the two systems. Given that, there are two possibilities: you are just telling me to mix them and ride because you say so, or that you know about the mechanical differences, and in your opinion, they should lead to nearly identical performance over the long term.

I won't accept the former answer. I don't care who you are.

Ideal answer would be, I've tried this, I've run it 10,000 miles, and yes, it works just fine. Or, I did this, but at 10,000 miles, the shifting is $!@(*^$.

Or, having handled both systems, I don't buy Campy's explanation about the return spring differences. It should be fine to ride as is. That's also a perfectly acceptable answer.

[FlashUNC]

Rode Athena with Chorus levers for a couple years with no issues. Blindfolded I couldn't tell the difference between that and, say, the full chorus system I had on another bike.

It's campy, all their stuff plays well together.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Rode Athena with Chorus levers for a couple years with no issues. Blindfolded I couldn't tell the difference between that and, say, the full chorus system I had on another bike.

It's campy, all their stuff plays well together.

OK, that's good to know.

I also came across this discussion, where one poster said that "shifting won't be quite as crisp" because of the Potenza RD having a lower spring tension.

Remember, that website I linked to earlier said that the Potenza system has a lower RD return spring tension, implying that the RD spring is driving just the RD, and the levers have enough springiness to drive themselves. The "racing" groups' RDs (Campy's terminology) apparently have the RD return spring both drive the RD back, and help drive the shift lever back.

If you put a Potenza derailleur, with low return spring tension, with a Chorus lever, then I worried that the system won't shift well, because the shifter isn't getting enough assist from the RD. I believe that Athena is/was the same way. If it worked fine for you, then it could be that the RD spring wasn't that much lower in tension.

That said, I would still worry that the shifting will deteriorate as the cables get dirty and friction in the housing increases. So, maybe the price is more frequent cable changes and work to minimize sharp bends. Either way, I may try it, I may just get full Potenza, I may just go Shimano. But this is the sort of discussion I was hoping for, because I now have some idea of what to expect if I do this. I wish I'd been able to articulate this earlier.

[Ralph]

I don't have any 11 speed shifters. But....do have a Ultra Shift 10 bike, and a Power Shift 10 bike. They are a tad different, but like how both works. The Ultra will "dump" gears, but I think the Power Shift is a tad more precise. No complaints with either. The hoods feel the same. Ultra shifts when you push the button, Power shifts when you release the button.

If I were to buy a Potenza Group......and if the Chorus shifters were a "free" upgrade, I might choose them over the Potenza's, Otherwise the Potenza's would be fine with me. Sure as heck would not spend any money to "upgrade" to the Chorus. (if I wanted Chorus, would just buy the Group to begin with)

I also think a lot of the "feel" people talk about has a lot to do with your skill in setting them up.....how long the cables are, B screw adjustment, how you cut the chain (tight will feel more precise), the curve of the bends, how old the wires and housing is, how the wires exits the lever housing, even how tight the bar tape, how square the end cuts are, plus a few other tricks of the trade.

There is so much lee way in setting these systems up....am sure they will all work fine together.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I am fine with running mixes of components that aren't 100% compatible, as long as they're close enough. I deem S11 cassette with C11 shifting to be close enough.

I was trying to draw you out about how Potenza derailleurs + Chorus shifters compared to that level of compatibility, in your experience, or in your opinion. Same? Better? A bit worse, but still close enough to work well?

Telling me to just ride something is not something I appreciate. I respect your knowledge greatly. But, I don't know that you have mixed Potenza derailleurs with Chorus shifters and
run them over the long term. You also didn't specifically address the issue of the different RD return spring tension between the two systems. Given that, there are two possibilities: you are just telling me to mix them and ride because you say so, or that you know about the mechanical differences, and in your opinion, they should lead to nearly identical performance over the long term.

I won't accept the former answer. I don't care who you are.

Ideal answer would be, I've tried this, I've run it 10,000 miles, and yes, it works just fine. Or, I did this, but at 10,000 miles, the shifting is $!@(*^$.

Or, having handled both systems, I don't buy Campy's explanation about the return spring differences. It should be fine to ride as is. That's also a perfectly acceptable answer.

Tapping out of this one, 'I don't care who you are', either. Good luck.

OBTW-just get shimano...or sram.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

OBTW-just get shimano...or sram.

I will assume that was a joke. Yes, I may seriously switch to Shimano! Or I may stick with Campy - and more likely full Potenza, if I do. We shall see.

I respect your expertise, but in this particular case, because of the technical reason Campy offered about the compatibility between Potenza and the "racing" groups, I wasn't willing to simply accept your say-so without an explanation.

You also put the phrase jerry rigged in quotes repeatedly. Not sure if those are scare quotes or not. If they are, know this: you may be more familiar with the expression jury rig, given its nautical heritage (IIRC you served in the navy). Jury rig means "the use of makeshift repairs or temporary contrivances, made with only the tools and materials that happen to be on hand". Jerry rig means "organized or constructed in a crude or improvised manner". So, jerry rig is a correct expression.

I could have done a better job of communicating my intent. I apologize for how my lack of clarity contributed to a misunderstanding. I do not apologize at all for not being willing to simply take your word.

[p nut]

Anyway.....
Went to tighten the levers. Found an old thread that had a tip on how to access that torx bolt easier. Pull the hood Down from the top than trying to peel it up. Ok, makes sense. Except when you're a total Campag rookie and don't know about the little nub that's secured half way down. Doh!! Guess I'll need to order new hoods...

[nalax]

Bad luck P-nut. But that leads to another question. Are the hoods interchangeable from the Potenza to the Chorus?

I've always run a mish-mash of components as long as they work.
My latest build is Potenza shifter, Chorus 12-29, KMC chain, Potenza mid RD all 11 speed with Veloce FD, SRAM mtb crank both 10 speed. I've taken it on single track these last two days(I live close to a forest preserve) and haven't missed a shift, haven't dropped a chain, no bad noise, nothing jamming, it just works well.

My Chorus feels a wee bit better shifting, more direct but I kind of like the Potenza's droopy thumb button. And if I'm riding amongst the trees, I'm better off smashing the Potenza levers over the Chorus.