Nahbs

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Schmed

Bears Ears is an interesting situation. On the surface, it looks like a great idea to protect it as they did. But, I visit that area monthly to visit customers and have for the last 5 years. I work on the Navajo Nation and the 20 or so Navajo that I talk to about this are split about Bears Ears being designated a National Monument. It seems that you can't win these days. 1/2 the people will be happy, 1/2 won't.

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article...y-10949345.php

I won't be spending any money in Utah, and I applaud Emerald Expositions for pulling Outdoor Retailer and Interbike out of the State.

[jlwdm]

Without looking I am sure I disagree with decisions by politicians in every state so are you saying I should not spend money in any state?

Jeff

[FlashUNC]

NAHBS has also released a statement that this'll be their last show in Salt Lake if the state tries to push back on the national park issue.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

Without looking I am sure I disagree with decisions by politicians in every state so are you saying I should not spend money in any state?



Jeff

I think you have to make personal decisions as to what policies you feel strongly about and whether you want to condone those policies or alternatively put your money where your mouth is and vote with your dollars.

I'm not ready to watch the looting of our natural resources by oil, gas and mineral interests, and I gladly refrain from spending my discretionary income to vacation in States that enact policies I believe offensive.




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[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

Without looking I am sure I disagree with decisions by politicians in every state so are you saying I should not spend money in any state?

Jeff

Personal choice depending on the 'issue'. Vote with your $. Or not, up to you.

[Mikej]

Pick your battles gentlemen - the problem is - The Outdoor show pulling out of Utah is mainly funded by companies who use an overseas Pacific rim / China / etc. area work force, obviously not ALL of the companies, but a majority percent. So, you are answering to child labor, poor working conditions, no rights type of companies, no matter how environmental they seem on the pages of Outdoor Magazine.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Pick your battles gentlemen - the problem is - The Outdoor show pulling out of Utah is mainly funded by companies who use an overseas Pacific rim / China / etc. area work force, obviously not ALL of the companies, but a majority percent. So, you are answering to child labor, poor working conditions, no rights type of companies, no matter how environmental they seem on the pages of Outdoor Magazine.

This depends on the company you're talking about. You are free to do the research rather than generalize, and make your own purchasing decisions.

I won't sit idly by while politicians of a certain ilk give away national treasures like Grand Escalante so gas and oil interests that finance campaigns of those dumb****s can profit at our expense.

This is a battle I'm ready to pick as an outdoors enthusiast.


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[Mikej]

Originally Posted by djg21

This depends on the company you're talking about. You are free to do the research rather than generalize, and make your own purchasing decisions.

I won't sit idly by while politicians of a certain ilk give away national treasures like Grand Escalante so gas and oil interests that finance campaigns of those dumb****s can profit at our expense.

This is a battle I'm ready to pick as an outdoors enthusiast.


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Oh I agree- I don't want to see it sold either, but the federal government doesn't have to give the land to the states for this to happen -

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Oh I agree- I don't want to see it sold either, but the federal government doesn't have to give the land to the states for this to happen -

BTW, here's some information on the corporate responsibility policies of Patagonia, Columbia Sportswear and some other socially responsible corporations manufacturing outdoor or athletic apparel. I go out of my way to purchase Patagonia clothing. Apart from issues of corporate responsibility, I have Patagonia jackets in my closet that are over 20 years old and still wear as if they were new.

http://www.patagonia.com/corporate-r...lity-faqs.html
https://www.columbia.com/on/demandwa...port_FINAL.pdf
https://outdoorindustry.org/article/...le-businesses/

And more about the conservative rush to sell off national monuments: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1...es-of-our-land

[David Kirk]

I'm conflicted on this - I completely support the Outdoor show's decision to move their event from Utah....one needs to vote with their dollars and it's the right thing to do.

I also support the NAHBS statement saying they will not consider bringing their event back to Utah in the future unless the state government changes their policies.

And at the same time it would be a shame for people to stay away from this year's NAHBS at this point. The builders and businesses attending the event put down their money many months ago, before the state showed their hand, and if people stay away it will hurt them directly. In other words the loss to the state if people stay away from this NAHBS will be very, very small but the loss to the builders attending will be very big to them personally. It will hurt us financially if people boycott the state at this point. We are just caught in the middle.

I totally respect people's decisions either way - I just wanted to point out that there are unintended consequences and the small builders so many here respect and support will be left holding the ***** end of the stick.

I hope to see you at NAHBS this year and in years to follow when it moves from Utah.

Thanks -

dave

[William]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

I'm conflicted on this - I completely support the Outdoor show's decision to move their event from Utah....one needs to vote with their dollars and it's the right thing to do.

I also support the NAHBS statement saying they will not consider bringing their event back to Utah in the future unless the state government changes their policies.

And at the same time it would be a shame for people to stay away from this year's NAHBS at this point. The builders and businesses attending the event put down their money many months ago, before the state showed their hand, and if people stay away it will hurt them directly. In other words the loss to the state if people stay away from this NAHBS will be very, very small but the loss to the builders attending will be very big to them personally. It will hurt us financially if people boycott the state at this point. We are just caught in the middle.

I totally respect people's decisions either way - I just wanted to point out that there are unintended consequences and the small builders so many here respect and support will be left holding the ***** end of the stick.

I hope to see you at NAHBS this year and in years to follow when it moves from Utah.

Thanks -

dave

To Dave's point:
I would say go and support the builders and the event, spend your dollars in local food and lodging establishments, ~and~ if this is an important topic to you, let all these local establishments know you will not be back to spend money in the State. If all the locals are being told this by a large percentage of their customers that should get their attention as well which will likely spur more action/support.






William

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by djg21

BTW, here's some information on the corporate responsibility policies of Patagonia, Columbia Sportswear and some other socially responsible corporations manufacturing outdoor or athletic apparel. I go out of my way to purchase Patagonia clothing. Apart from issues of corporate responsibility, I have Patagonia jackets in my closet that are over 20 years old and still wear as if they were new.

http://www.patagonia.com/corporate-r...lity-faqs.html
https://www.columbia.com/on/demandwa...port_FINAL.pdf
https://outdoorindustry.org/article/...le-businesses/

And more about the conservative rush to sell off national monuments: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1...es-of-our-land

cool, I found a different article though...just saying, pick your battles -starting after something you like, then start...
https://www.theatlantic.com/business...tation/394658/

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by djg21

I think you have to make personal decisions as to what policies you feel strongly about and whether you want to condone those policies or alternatively put your money where your mouth is and vote with your dollars.

I'm not ready to watch the looting of our natural resources by oil, gas and mineral interests, and I gladly refrain from spending my discretionary income to vacation in States that enact policies I believe offensive.




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First let me say I have no ties to Utah and have only been there to ski with the last time being over 20 years ago.

It just seems strange to pick on a state that is known for all of its outdoor recreational opportunities (including mountain biking) and has held a road stage race against all odds.

Jeff

[Schmed]

As with every topic these days, I think it's complicated.

I'm working today on Navajo land (in Utah) that is very actively exploring and pumping and processing oil and gas. It was their decision to allow for this drilling and a significant amount of money from each barrel of oil goes directly to the Navajo Nation. It was their choice. That money goes back to the tribe for schools or whatever they choose to do with it. There is a LOT of poverty in that area and oil and gas has given them some financial freedom.

Not only that, but 90% or more of the employees are Navajo locals and some of the younger engineers received a full ride scholarship to Engineering schools that I couldn't afford to send my kids to. Those young engineers now work for this energy company in the area. Non-engineer jobs also pay very well and provide opportunities for locals that otherwise have about zero job opportunities in this area.

I can't question their judgement to allow this oil and gas exploration. Not my land.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

First let me say I have no ties to Utah and have only been there to ski with the last time being over 20 years ago.

It just seems strange to pick on a state that is known for all of its outdoor recreational opportunities (including mountain biking) and has held a road stage race against all odds.

Jeff

Which is why it makes no sense for politicians in the State to protest executive orders setting aside national monuments and forests and sparing them from industrial exploitation, when those places attract recreational/eco-tourism, which in itself is a huge industry in the State. At the risk of broaching the "no politics" line, this has more to do with the western US concept of states' rights held by many who were on the fringe but now are in control of State and Federal governments, and the financing of those politicians' political campaigns by industries that stand to benefit if those public lands can be exploited.