OT: Stock Market Watch, October, '15

[oldpotatoe]

V

Originally Posted by saab2000

Markets are still way down for the past few months. It's still a buyer's market but that seems to be shifting.

I did sneak in a couple contributions to some funds and ETFs I own on some of the really bad days.

Can't time the markets but you can keep cash in your account for purchases on days when the market takes a dump. Of course, it may take a further dump the next day. Or it may go up. I try to avoid buying on days when it is up but it seems like 95% of the time when my 401(k) contribution is made it's on a day when markets are up for the day. Maybe it's because everyone is contributing on the same day so there are lots of purchase orders, driving up overall prices.

Down about 5%...

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by Steelman

Like someone mentioned previously, losses are only on paper, unless you sell.

An unrealized loss is still a loss.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

V

Down about 5%...

I'll take a 5% discount. Or put in other terms, I'll buy 5% more shares for the same investment.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by Tony T

An unrealized loss is still a loss.

Say what?

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by Tony T

An unrealized loss is still a loss.

Jerry, just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by Tony T

An unrealized loss is still a loss.

Definition of unrealized:

not made real or actual; not resulting in accomplishment

So, by your pure definition, it's not actually a loss. Again, until you sell ( at a loss or a gain ) you have not lost or won anything.

Putting your money in the stock market is like vapor ware. Until you do something with it, it doesn't actually exist.

[fuzzalow]

In fairness to Tony T, depending on what security it is and what it is held for, or against as it were, an unrealized loss is still a loss. We are talking about equities here.

The equity security may well be marked to market in determining its valuation and may be subject to a margin call on the overall account due to collateral holdings concerns in a leveraged account. So the loss is a loss. It just came back to bite the account holder in a different way.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I'll take a 5% discount. Or put in other terms, I'll buy 5% more shares for the same investment.

Agree, 'my guy' sees this as an opportunity that won't be realized until the whole circus is UP 5%...as it will be, plus some, over the long term.

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by Tony T

An unrealized loss is still a loss.

This isn't black and white.
It depends on the situation.
I play 2 roles in the market: Long term investor and speculator.
In my retirement and other long term accounts, I am happy to buy something at a low price and anticipate holding for a long time. I welcome the opportunity to buy more at a cheaper price. I don't recognize my gains or losses in the short term.

I also have a trading account I use for speculation. As a trader you recognize losses as they occur; you do not wait for the actual closing of the position. You maintain tight stops and exit positions as they turn against you.

Traders think of their account capital as inventory. You can't tie up your inventory in dead positions and just sit and wait. Just as Wal-Mart or any other retailer won't keep product on the shelves that isn't selling.
As a long term investor you can keep the summer clothing out on the racks over the next 6 months, expecting to ultimately get paid for it next spring.
As a trader you can't do that: You need to regularly turn over your inventory to keep it working and generating cash flow. The poorly performing goods get blown out and replaced with something that will perform immediately.

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

Definition of unrealized:

not made real or actual; not resulting in accomplishment

So, by your pure definition, it's not actually a loss. Again, until you sell ( at a loss or a gain ) you have not lost or won anything.

Putting your money in the stock market is like vapor ware. Until you do something with it, it doesn't actually exist.

So someone who bought XYZ corp at $100, and it's trading today at $10 hasn't lost anything.
(You must also believe that investment companies and banks should abide by the delusion that they should only record a loss when the investment is sold)

Not talking about tax law or GAAP here, just the clear fact that if you bought a stock for $100 and its trading at $10, there is a loss in this investment.

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Agree, 'my guy' sees this as an opportunity that won't be realized until the whole circus is UP 5%...as it will be, plus some, over the long term.

But it will only be realized if your guy sells

[Steelman]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

V

Down about 5%...

The broader index, the S & P is down approx. 5%, however, there could be some value and buying opportunities still to be had. ie:

Before today's trading:

Financials ie: Morgan Stanley is off 20%

Value Tech ie: Apple off 16%,

Energy ie: Chevron off 25%, Apache 45%

Oil Services ie: Halliburton is off 33%

These are just examples from these sectors, not endorsements.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Agree, 'my guy' sees this as an opportunity that won't be realized until the whole circus is UP 5%...as it will be, plus some, over the long term.

I'm only in it for the long term. I've never sold an investment. I just buy and hold until I need the money for a house. I'd like to pay as much as possible in cash.

Also, I am in retirement savings mode and so this is all more than 15 years distant when I will really need this money. So I'm not worried about dips and I don't get ecstatic when there are peaks. I'm just plugging away with my savings/investments and hopefully it will pay off when I'm ready to set the parking brake for the final time.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

Putting your money in the stock market is like vapor ware. Until you do something with it, it doesn't actually exist.

You may not have the money, but you received shares in return. That's not vapor, those shares are real, earn you dividends, give you voting rights, can be traded, etc.

[redir]

It's all Greek to me.