Another Campy Hiddenset headset problem

[Llewellyn]

I've re-assembled my Campy headset and replaced the ball bearings and retainers with loose ball bearings. The headset uses 1/8 balls and the advice from the forum was to use the same size. I took the bike for a test ride and the handling didn't feel right. I did the standard check when I got home by applying the front brake and moving the bike backwards and forwards. Sure enough, there was a lot of play in the fork.

I pulled the headset apart and there weren't enough ball bearings to fill up the races. I've filled the gaps and put it all back together, it's nice and snug, but there's still play at the front end. The 1/8 balls look awfully small in the races so do I need to use a larger size to make up for the missing retainer?

Or am I doing something else wrong?

[ultraman6970]

The retainer is there to hold the ball bearings, it float so I dont think that's the problem, are you sure you used the same size ball bearings size???

Just a detail... hiddenset?? those things dont use lose ball bearings, those ones that I know of use a sealed 45x45 cartridge. hmm.. no it doesnt... :/

[choke]

Originally Posted by Llewellyn

I pulled the headset apart and there weren't enough ball bearings to fill up the races. I've filled the gaps and put it all back together, it's nice and snug, but there's still play at the front end. The 1/8 balls look awfully small in the races so do I need to use a larger size to make up for the missing retainer?

I've always read that if you use loose balls you put in enough to fill it up and then remove one. That gives the others room to roll, if there are too many then the bearings bind.

You should use the same size as what's in there - the retainer just takes up space.

[DRietz]

Take it to a bike shop if you're in over your head. It's not the headset's fault, and the bearing size IS 1/8". If you run it without the cages, the advice above is correct - you want enough bearings in each race so that you have a gap big enough for one more.

If it's a threadless headset, you should check your spacers and headset cap to make sure it's not bottoming out before proper preload is achieved.

[Ralph]

Are you sure it doesn't use 5/32 bearings? Or use slightly larger bearings in bottom....even though cups are the same?

[Llewellyn]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Are you sure it doesn't use 5/32 bearings? Or use slightly larger bearings in bottom....even though cups are the same?

Funny you should say that because I did some investigating yesterday afternoon and even though the instructions that came with it refer to Hiddenset, it turns out it is simply a standard Record headset which does indeed use 5/32 ball bearings. I've ordered some and I think that will solve the problem.

I feel like a bit of a goose for not picking up that the Hiddenset is the integrated version

[Ralph]

I've never used a Campy hidden headset before, but like you, have used plenty of older Campy and other brand external headsets. And....like you say....they took 5/32. Fill it up, then take one out.

However....did run into a problem about 15 years ago with a Chorus (assume similar to Record) external headset. After taking head set apart, and the caged bearings were good, when I got it back together, it just wasn't tight. had some play in it. Just wasn't right. Discovered that while the top caged bearings were 5/32, the bottom caged bearings were a size larger....3/16 (I think...been a while). So after switching them the right way, it was fine. So if the 5/32 top and bottom doesn't fix it, try size larger on bottom. It makes sense (to me) to have slightly more robust bearings on bottom.

[Llewellyn]

Originally Posted by Ralph

I've never used a Campy hidden headset before, but like you, have used plenty of older Campy and other brand external headsets. And....like you say....they took 5/32. Fill it up, then take one out.

However....did run into a problem about 15 years ago with a Chorus (assume similar to Record) external headset. After taking head set apart, and the caged bearings were good, when I got it back together, it just wasn't tight. had some play in it. Just wasn't right. Discovered that while the top caged bearings were 5/32, the bottom caged bearings were a size larger....3/16 (I think...been a while). So after switching them the right way, it was fine. So if the 5/32 top and bottom doesn't fix it, try size larger on bottom. It makes sense (to me) to have slightly more robust bearings on bottom.

Something that has been doing my head in with this exercise is using imperial measurements for ball bearing sizes. Trying to compare and convert between 1/8, 5/32, 3/16ths etc has been a bit of a pain for someone who has lived with metric for more than 40 years. I guess it's a lot easier for people in the US who still use imperial regularly but I've had to spend a bit of time doing the conversions to get it right

[zmudshark]

Everyone should have one of these:
http://www.parktool.com/product/spok...el%20&%20Spoke

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Are you sure it doesn't use 5/32 bearings? Or use slightly larger bearings in bottom....even though cups are the same?

1 1/8inch HIDDENSETTheadset...1/8 bearing balls top and bottom. no 1 inch Hiddenset HS, threadless yes but not Hiddenset.

Grease, add balls in cup where they live,, till all touch, remove 1...

[Llewellyn]

This is what I have

http://www.jensonusa.com/Campagnolo-...adless-Headset

My research indicated that the Hiddenset is/was the integrated version, I obviously got the names confused.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Llewellyn

This is what I have

http://www.jensonusa.com/Campagnolo-...adless-Headset

My research indicated that the Hiddenset is/was the integrated version, I obviously got the names confused.

Threadless headset-

1 inch-5/32 top, 3/16 bottom

1 1/8inch-5/32 balls top and bottom.

[SpokeValley]

Originally Posted by zmudshark

Everyone should have one of these:
http://www.parktool.com/product/spok...el%20&%20Spoke

Yes^^

[ultraman6970]

Theres 1 1/8 of those??? interesting