SBT GRVL Runs Afoul of Local Ranchers & Residents in Colorado

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

In many cases, the most hostile landowner is often a wealthy transplant. They seem to bring city entitlement with them. (This is my yard get off)

This is not one of those cases. These are actual ranchers that are upset.

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

With regard to trash, don't most good events like this include a comprehensive "sweep" crew that cleans up the course behind the last riders?

It's a 140 miles course, and some of it is not accessible by car. Sweeping the whole course for trash would be a huge undertaking, requiring a lot of volunteers. I think the trash issue has to fall on the riders.

Frequent enough trailer mounted porta-johns. Read the participants the riot act before the event and in event prep emails: "dont piss anywhere outdoors; if we catch you, or anyone catches you, you're dq'd"

I doubt anyone starts the ride with the intention of peeing or pooping on someone's property. But, when faced with the (unplanned) prospect of soiling one's shorts before the next aid station, some riders make the decision to relieve themselves where they shouldn't. The threat of being dq'd (if caught) is somewhat meaningless, as the vast majority of riders are only doing the ride for fun, not trying to win it.

Similar with parking. Park in designated lots only, ride your bike to the start or wherever you need to go.

Parking at the start of the race is not an issue the ranchers are concerned about.

There will always be jerks in the field, but it's on the organizers to set the event up for success. If participants pay a hefty $$ for entrance, and there are a lack of facilities for example, you're going to have people saying screw it and peeing on someone's lawn.

My experience riding this event is that there was not a lack of facilities.

[adub]

The net effect of a large group of humans gathering is slobbery.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by .RJ

In the case of our race, the areas we tear up also get torn up from being trampled all year round but that doesnt really matter to the park management when they see the aftermath.

I got that same feeling while organizing a CX race last year. The park I really wanted would have been better overall for location, course, parking, etc but the city didn't want to risk damage to "that park". Even though several multi-day craft fairs use that same field every year and swaths of grass are trampled into literal dust.

We ended up getting permission to use a smaller park that is already rutted-up from people driving on the grass for their kids pee-wee football games.

[thumper88]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

Around here, you still hear about the cyclist who peed in a cornfield once 30 years ago. They mostly plant corn too close together for that now though.

In this case, there is no corn. There are, however, cows. Which do piss decent volume.
Indeed, about 20 of them would piss more than the entire race field.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

I doubt anyone starts the ride with the intention of peeing or pooping on someone's property. But, when faced with the (unplanned) prospect of soiling one's shorts before the next aid station, some riders make the decision to relieve themselves where they shouldn't.

There's a pretty massive difference between pooing in a yard (and leaving a soiled jersey behind as evidence) VS pooping behind a tree line where nobody is likely to walk.

If you can't control your bowels enough to wait for the latter, you probably shouldn't be doing this type of organized rides.

[thumper88]

Originally Posted by Alistair

There's a pretty massive difference between pooing in a yard (and leaving a soiled jersey behind as evidence) VS pooping behind a tree line where nobody is likely to walk.

If you can't control your bowels enough to wait for the latter, you probably shouldn't be doing this type of organized rides.

I have ridden long course every year since the beginning and not once have I seen pooping. Not saying it didn’t happen, but here we are. Peeing, yes. But never in front of a house.
Have I seen 200,000 cows on the route? Yes. I assume they pee gallons and poop kilos every day but I could be wrong because I’m citified. Likely the cow pee and poop smells like gardenias and doesn’t get washed into the streams, either.
I can also categorically say people have NOT been blocked into their driveways and that the roads have always been useable. People have had to drive more carefully, but that’s about it. Hay harvesters and hay trucks have not been blocked from getting to and from the fields. Private roads are NOT used except in a couple of places where the owner specifically agreed and encouraged.
One of the key complaints was about (wait for it) “incessant” cow bells. Which are used at maybe five places on 142 miles of course, two of them essentially on highways and one at a feed zone on private property well away from other houses.
As to trash? I have seen probably a total of 12 dropped full gels and maybe two wrappers, probably a set of glasses and one set of arm warmers. And yes, some water bottles. In the four years. From what, 10,000 riders total.
During the big county meeting, the key complaint about trash led the organizer to go investigate and what it was was one of the route signs that was missed during the cleanup sweep because it was knocked over.
Not perfect but this will improve with tightened rules. Ditto pissing. Of the maybe 200 races Ive done, SBT has the most portapotties by far, triple what you’d expect. It’s one of their selling points. And now they are going to enforce their use with a zero-tolerance rule that you will be DSQ’d if seen pissing.
And they have changed the routes now so bikes won’t go in two directions on the few stretches where that occurred before. So that will make driving easier. and yeah, people often have been on both sides of the road but that’s over as they are going to enforce right side only.
The stereotype-filled narrative about wealthy obnoxious entitled cyclists and salt-of-the-earth folksy rural heroes on horseback is a joke. Just think about which side you and your friends are on, and whether the description in the stories about this dispute and the stereotypes noted here really apply to you. They don’t, do they.

Do any of these facts matter? Probably not. This isn’t about fact, it’s about perception. The red-blue tribalism that’s poisoning American civic life layered atop the very real and understandable world view split between rural and urban folks.
The big gravel races all have two or three people tasked to run around trying to be ambassadors to residents on the course. Unbound has created issues for ranchers, who contacted the race organizer and the organizer would go out and say show me. Then, OK, we screwed this up, what can we do to make it right? and they did. But ....
There is only so much organizers can do to close this gap, though, and we’re starting to see the limits of the possible here in this one place.
A little more tolerance and understanding on both sides would go a long way. But those things are in short supply in America these days.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Alistair

There's a pretty massive difference between pooing in a yard (and leaving a soiled jersey behind as evidence) VS pooping behind a tree line where nobody is likely to walk.

Are you making an argument that pooping along the course is okay as long as you don't leave a soiled jersey behind? If so, I don't think that's going to gain much traction.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by thumper88

I can also categorically say people have NOT been blocked into their driveways and that the roads have always been useable. People have had to drive more carefully, but that’s about it. Hay harvesters and hay trucks have not been blocked from getting to and from the fields.

Hay mowers are often 16 feet wide, and it would not be safe to transport one on the roads during a bike race. Balers and stack loaders aren't quite as wide, but it would still be unsafe to have them on the road during a race. If SBT GRVL coincides with hay cutting, it can be a real problem for the ranchers.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I acted as event photographer for the Tour of the Battenkill for quite a few years and got well-acquainted with the organizer. For some years it was the largest race event in North America with over 3,000 racers in multiple fields over two days.

For every town or village the race passed through he had to go to the local town council or supervisors every year to review any problems from the year before and get a permit for this year's event. Were there issues? Of course–and they would get them sorted out and move forward.

This race was always in the early spring, and in any of the villages it passed through at this time of year, you could have rolled a bowling ball down the middle of Main Street at high noon and not hit anything. But I'll never forget the way he described the process to me. There was a certain contingent in every town and village who complained every year with similar spurious or just plain concocted complaints. But after a few years he realized that it wasn't that they didn't want this event to happen on this particular day. They didn't want anything to happen on any day. It didn't matter what.

But if event organizers here haven't already instituted patrol motos and porta-johns every few miles, then they are going to have problems. Same for a variety of other "improvements" mentioned here. Unless they can demonstrate they've made a good faith effort to improve then the event won't last long. Doesn't matter where it is.

BBD

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Are you making an argument that pooping along the course is okay as long as you don't leave a soiled jersey behind? If so, I don't think that's going to gain much traction.

But it’s behind a tree!

Both are a public nuisance and spread disease.

[thumper88]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Hay mowers are often 16 feet wide, and it would not be safe to transport one on the roads during a bike race. Balers and stack loaders aren't quite as wide, but it would still be unsafe to have them on the road during a race. If SBT GRVL coincides with hay cutting, it can be a real problem for the ranchers.

Uhhhhh... 8 feet to almost 21 feet are normal for big cutters, but they go down the road getting to fields swung in, so they are 8 to 10 feet wide.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by thumper88

Uhhhhh... 8 feet to almost 21 feet are normal for big cutters, but they go down the road getting to fields swung in, so they are 8 to 10 feet wide.

The transport width of a John Deere 946 is just over 13 feet. The transport width of a 956 is nearly 15 feet. We have 20 foot gates on our pastures in order to get these mowers in and out.

[duff_duffy]

Could the farmers/ranchers just use this during the race always wanted to ride under one of these.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

The transport width of a John Deere 946 is just over 13 feet. The transport width of a 956 is nearly 15 feet. We have 20 foot gates on our pastures in order to get these mowers in and out.

[thumper88]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

The transport width of a John Deere 946 is just over 13 feet. The transport width of a 956 is nearly 15 feet. We have 20 foot gates on our pastures in order to get these mowers in and out.

Those are big ones, but fair enough, but many of us have certainly encountered harvesters and tractors with disc setups in this size range on races and other rides and it just hasn’t been a major issue.
This didn’t seem to be THE major complaint, though honestly I do believe it’s still hay season and will be for some time after the race, given the temps. But SBT could with some difficulty, find another place on the crowded race calendar. And probably will. But that won’t fix the pressure to shut it down.
Somehow none of this has been raised as an issue for gravel nats a couple weeks later and not far to the north.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by thumper88

Those are big ones, but fair enough, but many of us have certainly encountered harvesters and tractors with disc setups in this size range on races and other rides and it just hasn’t been a major issue.

We had an incident here several years ago where a triathlete was killed in a collision with farm equipment on the course, so I hesitate to say it hasn’t been a major issue.