OT: Ray, how's your Bitcoin investment going?

[redir]

Originally Posted by Louis

Med School for the 99%:

hahahaha

[1centaur]

Originally Posted by Louis

People are somewhat better qualified to make buying decisions about what food to consume than they are about what to do for health care, so in general the free market works better for food.

Not quite sure how ignorance interacts with how something is paid for. We don't know a lot about a lot of services we buy, really. And if we made a concerted effort to give excellent information to everyone on the web about health to at least equal what we know about our food, would it be OK to introduce profit to the equation then?

BTW, even a single payer government would be buying from for-profit companies and doctors, so it's not like one can get it out of the system. We have a hybrid system today (some government, some profit) and we'll have a hybrid system tomorrow.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by 1centaur

Not quite sure how ignorance interacts with how something is paid for.

Not how something is paid for, but how the buying decisions are made.

[93legendti]

Thank G-d for govt making health care decisions for us stupid folk:


'It's been less a month since the Affordable Care Act started providing health coverage for people who bought insurance through the exchange, and now some people who are going to the doctor for the first time are finding some complications.

"We have health insurance that is worthless," said customer Shawnna Simpson.

Simpson found out last week the new insurance for which she is paying $600 a month was a bad choice for her family.

Her 15-year-old daughter was hurt in a cheerleading accident, so Simpson called her family doctor only to learn they don't take her new health plan: Blue Cross Network E.

Ever since, she's been on the phone with the healthcare exchange, looking for a family doctor in Williamson County that accepts her plan, but finding none.

"We can't use it in the county where we live," she said.'

http://www.wsmv.com/story/24560302/s...ealth-exchange

[fuzzalow]

As famously quoted by Willie Sutton when asked why he robbed banks, he replied "Because that's where the money is".

The health care profession has been one of the few showing steady growth in jobs while the rest of the US labor market has been stagnant or in decline. And with many who have now entered into one of the few industries with growth in jobs and attractive salaries, there will be a vested interest of the industry participants in sustaining and fueling that growth as long as possible. The danger and pitfall occurs when the view and attitude towards the persons under care in the health care profession are no longer seen as patients but as revenue streams. indeed, with many hospitals, institutions and MDs, that malignant view of patients has already occurred. I believe the handling of patients as tantamount to revenue streams to be immoral and inhumane.

I am not adverse to the profit motive in the health care industry. I am adverse to the profit motive in the health care industry that incentivizes and rewards financial profitability rather than some metric centered on the success of patient outcomes.

The health care industry is not a growth industry in the sense of it expanding economic growth, fostering opportunity and export of goods and services. It is a zero-sum game that leeches from the misfortune of illness and malady that befalls a percentage of the citizenry drawn from a reasonably fixed population pool. Its dominance in an economy the size of the USA speaks not of innovation but of opportunism and exploitation of its own citizenry. Concerning a matter of health and wellness on which many have no leeway in choosing or expertise insofar as negotiating or education themselves in order to contribute to their own better outcome.

Originally Posted by 1centaur

Realize that the amount of health care the population gets can be made suboptimal not only by profit leakage but by bureaucratic indifference and inefficiencies (and even official priorities) that reflect the lack of profit motive. I am not advocating one or the other, just pointing out that what is obvious to some about profit is obvious to others about non-profit beyond a certain size. There are goods and bads about both visions, period.

Respectfully, that is speculation as to outcomes that may be for a strawman construct of your own conjecture. If your phrasing of "and even official priorities" is a trope for "government death panels" I simply view that as inflammatory language from nescient polemics.

There are no easy fixes. Without resorting to speculation, the facts can be distilled to the simple numbers that the US ranked 37th overall in quality while 1st in expenditure for health care as per the World Health Organization (WHO) report from a few years back. Those two numbers don't jibe. The World Bank number for health care as a percent of USA GDP was about 17%. Sure, Belize was some big % number too but that country's GDP is peanuts - 17% of the USA GDP is a very big number.

I am not a socialist by any stretch of the imagination, but I know when somethings not working.

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Thank G-d for govt making health care decisions for us stupid folk:


'It's been less a month since the Affordable Care Act started providing health coverage for people who bought insurance through the exchange, and now some people who are going to the doctor for the first time are finding some complications.

"We have health insurance that is worthless," said customer Shawnna Simpson.

Simpson found out last week the new insurance for which she is paying $600 a month was a bad choice for her family.

Her 15-year-old daughter was hurt in a cheerleading accident, so Simpson called her family doctor only to learn they don't take her new health plan: Blue Cross Network E.

Ever since, she's been on the phone with the healthcare exchange, looking for a family doctor in Williamson County that accepts her plan, but finding none.

"We can't use it in the county where we live," she said.'

http://www.wsmv.com/story/24560302/s...ealth-exchange

There will always be outliers that can be made illustrative of and a story about as testimony to the problems in moving forwards with anything new. So what? It is not that I don't feel for the persons in this news story, but this discussion is about the bigger story and not localized to the plight of this particular circumstance. Change is a fundamental condition of life.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

There are no easy fixes. Without resorting to speculation, the facts can be distilled to the simple numbers that the US ranked 37th overall in quality while 1st in expenditure for health care as per the World Health Organization (WHO) report from a few years back. Those two numbers don't jibe. The World Bank number for health care as a percent of USA GDP was about 17%. Sure, Belize was some big % number too but that country's GDP is peanuts - 17% of the USA GDP is a very big number.

I believe there is a huge spend in the U.S. during the last 6 mo of a patients life that is non-existent in other countries and a small percentage of the population end up being a big percentage of the total consumption. Unless you ration, you are throwing deck chairs off the titanic hoping it doesn't sink.

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Simpson found out last week the new insurance for which she is paying $600 a month was a bad choice for her family.

Her 15-year-old daughter was hurt in a cheerleading accident, so Simpson called her family doctor only to learn they don't take her new health plan: Blue Cross Network E.

What I find extremely hard to believe in this story (but I don't doubt its accuracy), is that someone would commit to a plan for $7,200/year without first calling their "Family Doctor" to make sure that they take that health plan.

I mean, come-on… "Blue Cross Network E"… Call your doctor to see if he's in that Network before you sign-up.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Thank G-d for govt making health care decisions for us stupid folk:


'It's been less a month since the Affordable Care Act started providing health coverage for people who bought insurance through the exchange, and now some people who are going to the doctor for the first time are finding some complications.

"We have health insurance that is worthless," said customer Shawnna Simpson.

Simpson found out last week the new insurance for which she is paying $600 a month was a bad choice for her family.

Her 15-year-old daughter was hurt in a cheerleading accident, so Simpson called her family doctor only to learn they don't take her new health plan: Blue Cross Network E.

Ever since, she's been on the phone with the healthcare exchange, looking for a family doctor in Williamson County that accepts her plan, but finding none.

"We can't use it in the county where we live," she said.'

http://www.wsmv.com/story/24560302/s...ealth-exchange

9 mos, 3 days......then 2 more years.

"Anecdotal evidence", perfect for the news, faux or otherwise.

BTW, I am on Tricare, 100% government policy, ala what members of congress has, and it is tremendous. Another isolated instance that 'proves' nothing.

[cfox]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

9 mos, 3 days......then 2 more years.

"Anecdotal evidence", perfect for the news, faux or otherwise.

BTW, I am on Tricare, 100% government policy, ala what members of congress has, and it is tremendous. Another isolated instance that 'proves' nothing.

No one is surprised that congress has given themselves a tremendous health care plan.

My insurance was cancelled because of Obama Care and I was forced to buy a new policy through an Obama Care exchange. Much weaker coverage for a 50% increase in my premium/out of pocket cost. What a deal!! The sign-up process was a complete disaster. I started the process as early as possible, yet I wasn't able to confirm I actually had coverage until 2 weeks after my prior plan expired. Super comforting with a wife and two young kids. That 'anecdote' still feels pretty real to me. A mountain of isolated incidents = a mountain.

[54ny77]

I know 3 others in your same boat, of varying ages.

The older person is going to have a tough time of it. Blue Cross said adios to his private policy (non-employer).

Mountain is right.

Originally Posted by cfox

No one is surprised that congress has given themselves a tremendous health care plan.

My insurance was cancelled because of Obama Care and I was forced to buy a new policy through an Obama Care exchange. Much weaker coverage for a 50% increase in my premium/out of pocket cost. What a deal!! The sign-up process was a complete disaster. I started the process as early as possible, yet I wasn't able to confirm I actually had coverage until 2 weeks after my prior plan expired. Super comforting with a wife and two young kids. That 'anecdote' still feels pretty real to me. A mountain of isolated incidents = a mountain.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by cfox

No one is surprised that congress has given themselves a tremendous health care plan.

My insurance was cancelled because of Obama Care and I was forced to buy a new policy through an Obama Care exchange. Much weaker coverage for a 50% increase in my premium/out of pocket cost. What a deal!! The sign-up process was a complete disaster. I started the process as early as possible, yet I wasn't able to confirm I actually had coverage until 2 weeks after my prior plan expired. Super comforting with a wife and two young kids. That 'anecdote' still feels pretty real to me. A mountain of isolated incidents = a mountain.

Congress didn't give themselves anything, it's a government employee health insurance plan. It took 20 years in the USN to get mine. I don't think anybody in congress earned this good deal.

ACA has problems, decent first step, poorly implemented, IMHO, that is in need of improvement. Social security, when new, did too. What makes no sense is to can it......that would be a mess.

But we'll see in 2016, vote early and vote often.....now back to bit coins!

[cfox]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Congress didn't give themselves anything, it's a government employee health insurance plan. It took 20 years in the USN to get mine. I don't think anybody in congress earned this good deal.

ACA has problems, decent first step, poorly implemented, IMHO, that is in need of improvement. Social security, when new, did too. What makes no sense is to can it......that would be a mess.

But we'll see in 2016, vote early and vote often.....now back to bit coins!

oh, they gave it to themselves, alright. That shameless rabble are part time employees; they don't deserve tricare. Veterans like you and my father-in-law certainly do.

Agree, back to coins! This health care talk is depressing.

[54ny77]

why does health care cost so damned much?

here's an example: pal of mine worked on a drug for 20+ years, company has invested mind blowing amounts in it (10 figures).

that means zero revenue for 20+ years. huge operating costs. expensive, well-educated and smart employees dedicated to getting that thing to market.

and it still ain't done. literally some folks on the project have retired in the interim.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

why does health care cost so damned much?

here's an example: pal of mine worked on a drug for 20+ years, company has invested mind blowing amounts in it (10 figures).

that means zero revenue for 20+ years. huge operating costs. expensive, well-educated and smart employees dedicated to getting that thing to market.

and it still ain't done. literally some folks on the project have retired in the interim.

Actually, prescriptions are only 10.1% of the total pie. The yoy% increase is only 1.2%. Believe it or not, prescription drugs are almost a bargain in U.S. healthcare. YOY% increase for hospitals and physicians was 4.9%. This is the largest driver of healthcare costs. It's also 50.8% of the total pie.

Hospital concentration is a large driver of cost increases. In markets where mergers took place to increase concentration and limit competition, price increased at 20%. Maximizing the revenue stream so to speak.

[mcrispl]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

why does health care cost so damned much?

here's an example: pal of mine worked on a drug for 20+ years, company has invested mind blowing amounts in it (10 figures).

that means zero revenue for 20+ years. huge operating costs. expensive, well-educated and smart employees dedicated to getting that thing to market.

and it still ain't done. literally some folks on the project have retired in the interim.

In addition the billions of dollars that are spent on quality control throughout development and during production in order to maintain good standing with the FDA (I suppose you could get cynical and suggest that the FDA is being bribed, etc. but still a massive expense) All companies obviously do a degree of quality control, but for the most part it doesn't come close to what medical device and pharmaceutical companies spend.