OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[GScot]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

My VW Credit refund check came yesterday. This concludes my TDI adventure.

The GTI needed a carbon cleaning and a set of injectors. It runs like New now. Mileage is up, gotta be close to 30mpg combined.

My replacement is V8 S5 I picked up with 50k on it. In perfect condition but I may just do a carbon cleaning as a maintenance effort. I checked the injector tables with VAG-COM before buying and everything looked fine, these are supposed to go 100k plus anyway so I'll let them stay put for a while.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by GScot

My replacement is V8 S5 I picked up with 50k on it. In perfect condition but I may just do a carbon cleaning as a maintenance effort. I checked the injector tables with VAG-COM before buying and everything looked fine, these are supposed to go 100k plus anyway so I'll let them stay put for a while.

My understanding was that the newer TSI motors were less prone to injector fouling than the previous (pre 2008 change over) FSI engines, but I could be wrong. If I remember right, for those FSI plants, 50-75k was about the time you would start seeing some buildup that could be worth cleaning. A catch can might help prevent further accumulation.

[shovelhd]

My injector tables were fine. They were all caked with carbon at the nozzles. Since he had the manifold off (which was replaced under extended warranty at 60k) I made the call to replace them all. I did the fuel filter as part of the initial diagnosis, so that just leaves the two fuel pumps in the fuel system as potential problems down the road. I plan to fog the intake every oil change (every 5k).

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

My injector tables were fine. They were all caked with carbon at the nozzles. Since he had the manifold off (which was replaced under extended warranty at 60k) I made the call to replace them all. I did the fuel filter as part of the initial diagnosis, so that just leaves the two fuel pumps in the fuel system as potential problems down the road. I plan to fog the intake every oil change (every 5k).

Were the valves caked up too, or just the injectors?

The reason I ask is because my understanding of the issue of carbon buildup, which is more prevalent on direct injection engines like the FSI and TSI, was due to oil/contaminants getting into the intake pathway via the PCV recirculation. If that's the case, the fuel pathway isn't so much the issue as the PCV circuit. Though if you are regularly cleaning the intake, the point may be moot. As above, a catch can could save you the regular cleaning effort/cost or at least space out the intervals a bit more.

[GScot]

Originally Posted by batman1425

My understanding was that the newer TSI motors were less prone to injector fouling than the previous (pre 2008 change over) FSI engines, but I could be wrong. If I remember right, for those FSI plants, 50-75k was about the time you would start seeing some buildup that could be worth cleaning. A catch can might help prevent further accumulation.

Thanks. I read everything I could find online and spoke with a few owner/mechanics before the purchase. This one is a newer version but first hand info is short in supply. Best estimate I could make is they are generally good but a few bad examples are out there. I did an extensive service after getting it home and pulled the vent lines to see how things looked, they were clean and the spark plugs were clean so I feel pretty good about the state of the engine. I would install a catch can automatically if it were a turbo engine, but for now I'll wait until I get the urge to pull the intake and do a carbon cleaning. If it is a mess I will install a can.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by GScot

Thanks. I read everything I could find online and spoke with a few owner/mechanics before the purchase. This one is a newer version but first hand info is short in supply. Best estimate I could make is they are generally good but a few bad examples are out there. I did an extensive service after getting it home and pulled the vent lines to see how things looked, they were clean and the spark plugs were clean so I feel pretty good about the state of the engine. I would install a catch can automatically if it were a turbo engine, but for now I'll wait until I get the urge to pull the intake and do a carbon cleaning. If it is a mess I will install a can.

Seems very reasonable to me. Also the 4cyl and 6cyl Audi motors also seem to be at increased risk based on numbers I've read, though to be fair, they make A LOT more of those than V8's so one would expect to hear about more issues in the higher volume mills. Not sure if the numbers out there are adjusted for stuff like total units.

Also it isn't clear to me why a turbocharged motor is more sensitive to this than NA but that does seem to be the case. Perhaps the increased compression from forcing air into the combustion chamber results in more blowby than in NA?

As the number of DI engines increases, I think we'll see more and more cleaning incorporated into regular maintenance schedules. There are A LOT of eco boost engines out there that could also fall victim to this.

[GScot]

Originally Posted by batman1425

Seems very reasonable to me. Also the 4cyl and 6cyl Audi motors also seem to be at increased risk based on numbers I've read, though to be fair, they make A LOT more of those than V8's so one would expect to hear about more issues in the higher volume mills. Not sure if the numbers out there are adjusted for stuff like total units.

Also it isn't clear to me why a turbocharged motor is more sensitive to this than NA but that does seem to be the case. Perhaps the increased compression from forcing air into the combustion chamber results in more blowby than in NA?

As the number of DI engines increases, I think we'll see more and more cleaning incorporated into regular maintenance schedules. There are A LOT of eco boost engines out there that could also fall victim to this.

Yes I think it will become normal and intakes will probably be better designed for access and maintenance. Not that I'm complaining about this one as it is fairly simple but not all of them are. I know BMW has a port cover tool you can buy in either plastic or metal to allow a blaster wand to do its thing while the shroud ducts air for your shop vac.

[chrisroph]

That lightweight E36 M3 is a beauty! I had an E36 M3 for a couple years. It was a beautiful machine.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by batman1425

Were the valves caked up too, or just the injectors?

The reason I ask is because my understanding of the issue of carbon buildup, which is more prevalent on direct injection engines like the FSI and TSI, was due to oil/contaminants getting into the intake pathway via the PCV recirculation. If that's the case, the fuel pathway isn't so much the issue as the PCV circuit. Though if you are regularly cleaning the intake, the point may be moot. As above, a catch can could save you the regular cleaning effort/cost or at least space out the intervals a bit more.

Yes, the intakes had a significant amount of baked on carbon. It had not been cleaned since new, now at 84k. Fogging will hopefully keep the accumulation down, but I fully expect to have to have it done again in another 50k. The mechanic charged me $270, not worth the aggravation for me.

Not interested in a catch can. They are expensive and have mixed results with stock motors.

[staggerwing]

Not to derail a most interesting discussion, but it looks like things are getting more interesting for VW.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelsc.../#12295e907c24

[ptourkin]

Just got a notice from the California DMV that there is no record that the vehicle I turned in is now insured. It certainly isn't by me. I was able to file a non-op affidavit online but my new vehicle has the personal plate from that one. Fingers crossed.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

Just got a notice from the California DMV that there is no record that the vehicle I turned in is now insured.

Why would you care or be responsible if a vehicle you turned in (and presumably no longer own) is not insured? I don't get it.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by Louis

Why would you care or be responsible if a vehicle you turned in (and presumably no longer own) is not insured? I don't get it.

According to their records, I'm still the RO and that concerns me. It looks like VWGOA made a mistake on the paperwork and I'm going to end up in phone hell.

[pbarry]

Thanks for the link. A little dysfunction in the VW/P/A family, yikes!

Originally Posted by staggerwing

Not to derail a most interesting discussion, but it looks like things are getting more interesting for VW.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelsc.../#12295e907c24

[kgreene10]

Despite my moral misgivings, I haven't found another vehicle that will work for the family in the price range and so I'm considering a Sportwagen tsi s or Alltrack S. Anyone have experience with the Alltrack? Is it worth the extra compared to a fwd regular wagon? I live in temperate Austin.