Dump-truck hits rider in our group this morning

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i was on a road unexpectedly the other day with the sun low in the sky and glaring down. i felt VERY uneasy and got off of it as soon as i could. it's of course not an excuse for the driver in any way, but it can be very difficult to see the full road in front of you when the sun is just such in the sky.

I get that^.

It does seem that a common reason for accidents is that the driver has poor visibility for one reason or another. This is not a sufficient excuse because if a driver cannot see well enough to drive safely, then the driver shouldn't be driving at all. Thought I hardly expect logic to make any difference in the real world. Cyclists really have to go above and beyond to mitigate the risks since they are way more vulnerable, as we read in this thread.

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by sparky33

I get that^.

It does seem that a common reason for accidents is that the driver has poor visibility for one reason or another. This is not a sufficient excuse because if a driver cannot see well enough to drive safely, then the driver shouldn't be driving at all. Thought I hardly expect logic to make any difference in the real world. Cyclists really have to go above and beyond to mitigate the risks since they are way more vulnerable, as we read in this thread.

Not sure if you drive, but that is a little over-simplistic. I've encountered total "sunout" a couple of times which created a very difficult situation to deal with. It's more than just sunny bright conditions - it's such intense bright light/glare that for a few moments it hurts your eyes to look ahead and the glare in the glass obscures everything. Many things have to align, but if the angle and intensity of the sun is just right and it bounces off the car ahead - blinding. First instinct is to brake and slow immediately. Takes a second to realize that if you can't tell what the car ahead is doing, the car behind probably can't figure out what you're doing. Have experienced same in total white out snow conditions. When it happens I think how fortunate it has been that a cyclist was not in the vicinity at the time. It's happened on a route I ride often and as a result I now ride with extra awareness and attention to detail if that situation might possibly develop. ... bright sunlight in open terrain in general adds an element of caution ... glare is blinding and not always predictable.

[sparky33]

It is simplistic and unrealistic, I admit it. We all drive at one point or another in substandard conditions because it is often impractical to immediately stop, pull over or delay. Usually the outcome is a non-event.

Still the logic should ideally be to look where you are going...and by look I mean positively see where you are going.

Originally Posted by sitzmark

Not sure if you drive, but that is a little over-simplistic. I've encountered total "sunout" a couple of times which created a very difficult situation to deal with. It's more than just sunny bright conditions - it's such intense bright light/glare that for a few moments it hurts your eyes to look ahead and the glare in the glass obscures everything. Many things have to align, but if the angle and intensity of the sun is just right and it bounces off the car ahead - blinding. First instinct is to brake and slow immediately. Takes a second to realize that if you can't tell what the car ahead is doing, the car behind probably can't figure out what you're doing. Have experienced same in total white out snow conditions. When it happens I think how fortunate it has been that a cyclist was not in the vicinity at the time. It's happened on a route I ride often and as a result I now ride with extra awareness and attention to detail if that situation might possibly develop. ... bright sunlight in open terrain in general adds an element of caution ... glare is blinding and not always predictable.

[ultraman6970]

Hope your friend is doing better. She got lucky.

[flydhest]

Very glad your friend is ok Keith.

I have to say the bigger picture and the discussion going on as a sidebar is very interesting to me. The driver is clearly at fault. I understand the instinct to avoid the road as a cyclist, as I probably would. But I agree that a driver who can't see has a huge responsibility. I am a driver in addition to being a cyclist. In these situations i get the same worried alarmed feeling I get when I am cycling. But while driving, the question is what if I kill someone. I guess I should worry what if a car is passing and I head on collide and get killed. The point though is that it is not (or should not be) unrealistic to expect that drivers understand that sunrise and sunset can cause blindness. Shockingly, the sun rises and sets every single day. There is nothing new there and if you are operating a car let alone a dump truck at that time of day and you do not expect that it could happen, then you are being reckless.

Now, I would adjust my behavior as a cyclist. I would rather be alive than right. But I don't see how we shouldn't expect the driver in this case to have acted better.

[tiretrax]

Glad she's ok. A co-worker and his pack of 4 where all killed in a similar incident by a 16 yo driving with her dad. They came over a rise and were blinded by the low sun. Horrible for all.

[Anarchist]

For a number of years now I have ridden with a tail light, or two, all the time.

Then I started riding with a headlight too.

Then i realized I was riding my commuter bike all the time because it has a dynamo and lights.

That was the point where i really accepted that my style of riding had changed and even went so far as to get a dynamo wheel built up for my "go fast" bike too.

I basically never ride anymor without them and both head and tail lights and, yes, i probably get made fun of.

So what.

[93KgBike]

I'm so glad that she is OK. These kinds of things are so alarming to hear about. It's a relief to hear a story that ends OK.

[simplemind]

Originally Posted by gasman

Wow Keith
The result could have so much worse. I get nervous riding into the sun for that reason and started to always have a blinky going on any road ride. I'd rather be paranoid .

I'm so glad to hear your friend is okay.

Originally Posted by Keith A

Yes, it really could have been bad...very bad. At least two of us had rear lights on, and I run my rear light much of the time now...certainly anytime it's remotely close to dawn or dusk.

This was the first thing that popped up in my head...was she running a blinky?

The use of a light in daylight hours should be a standard procedure, because "why not"? The cyclist physical profile is so small relative to a vehicle, anything that makes you more visible is a plus. So what if it's dorky (use a mirror too), the potential for failure is just too great.

OKAY, rant off...so glad her injuries were not life threatening.

[disspence]

Hope your friend is heeling. The value of running lights during daylight hours cannot be overstated. We need all the help we can get to ensure drivers see us.

I was in an accident in May. Also no broken bones or bad injuries. Bike was totaled though. Driver's insurance replaced cost of my bicycle, and just the other day they called and offered me a additional settlement. I never asked or got an attorney involved. The insurance company just called me. nice surprise

[Nooch]

Originally Posted by Anarchist

For a number of years now I have ridden with a tail light, or two, all the time.

Then I started riding with a headlight too.

Then i realized I was riding my commuter bike all the time because it has a dynamo and lights.

That was the point where i really accepted that my style of riding had changed and even went so far as to get a dynamo wheel built up for my "go fast" bike too.

I basically never ride anymor without them and both head and tail lights and, yes, i probably get made fun of.

So what.

I've often thought about this -- while I'm not commuting as much as I used to (working two jobs, and my wife isn't keen on my coming home at 11pm -- although really, I find it safer than 7am or 5pm, but that's another story), I am riding more and more at zero-dark-thirty. And especially as we're coming up the darkest time of year, if I want to stay out (which I'd prefer to zwift, if only to not wake my wife every morning) a dynamo might make sense. Just not sure how easy on/off it would be when it's time to throw the bike back into 'race' trim. I'm assuming zip ties up the fork for the wiring?

(sorry for the thread drift...)