OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[rnhood]

Mr. Horn should keep on his suit, as he might have to go back to the House Panel and do some more 'splaining.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...jury-reporting

[bcroslin]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

I don't get this either. As a tuner, I've increased the performance of cars, then found a way of getting them to pass emissions. This is a standard feature in the TDI. The only way VW failed here was not marketing this better.

Except that the vast majority of us that bought TDI's did so because we were led to believe they were more environmentally friendly and got great gas mileage.

If I wanted to buy a tuner car I would have bought a WRX or better yet an R32.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

I don't get this either. As a tuner, I've increased the performance of cars, then found a way of getting them to pass emissions. This is a standard feature in the TDI. The only way VW failed here was not marketing this better.

One difference is, Ed's car is one car, VW did it to 11,000,000. Or is that 11,000,000 differences?

[grawk]

Four more carmakers join diesel emissions row

However, in a letter seen by Reuters to EU officials, the ACEA chairman and Renault chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, said that no significant progress on NOx was possible before 2019. Reuters said that ACEA, which lobbies for Europe’s carmakers in Brussels, told the officials on 1 October that the NOx limit for a new, more realistic test should be 70% higher than today’s limit. An ACEA spokeswoman said it was “too early in the process to confirm or comment on hypothetical figures.”

[Louis]

Originally Posted by grawk

Four more carmakers join diesel emissions row

Regardless of what happens with all the other manufacturers, it's obvious to me that the various regulatory agencies need to improve their testing methods so we have more real-world numbers, not just the car sitting on rollers in a test lab. Had there been better, more comprehensive, ways to test it would not have been as easy to cheat.

Of course in today's Congress even the Clean Air Act of of 1970 would probably be voted down as a horrible infringement of a company's right to make maximum profits with as little government interference as possible.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by Louis

Regardless of what happens with all the other manufacturers, it's obvious to me that the various regulatory agencies need to improve their testing methods so we have more real-world numbers, not just the car sitting on rollers in a test lab. Had there been better, more comprehensive, ways to test it would not have been as easy to cheat.

And they never set out to catch cheating. The WVU test was commissioned to prove that the current lab tests don't accurately measure emissions; catching the cheating was a curious side effect. But now the truth is out - the testing doesn't accurately reflect what goes out on the road very well, and real world emissions are pretty much universally considerably higher than the standards. There's going to be a whole lot of fallout from this worldwide.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

I don't get this either. As a tuner, I've increased the performance of cars, then found a way of getting them to pass emissions. This is a standard feature in the TDI. The only way VW failed here was not marketing this better.

So you're better at getting maximum performance out of cars and better at getting them to pass emissions controls than an industrial giant like Volkswagen AG with all their resources?

[Ken Robb]

My first impression was "of course the top execs knew about the cheat and signed off on the deception". On further reflection I can imagine some engineers designing the cheater thing without revealing it beyond their immediate circle and taking kudos/bonuses for designing a "brilliant program" that met all standards for emissions while providing excellent power and economy. If they didn't reveal their secret I can't imagine that top management would have the motivation or ability to dig deep unto engine management codes.

In the military we learned the officer in charge will always be deemed responsible for whatever happens on his watch but that doesn't mean he condoned the activity.

[93legendti]

Yup, if only the EPA had more money...Don't worry, there are plenty of examples of a broken agency:

"EPA's fake spy gets prison sentence
By ERICA MARTINSON 12/18/13

John C. Beale, the former EPA official who convinced his bosses, friends and even his wife that he was a CIA spy, was sentenced to 32 months in prison Wednesday for defrauding the agency out of nearly $900,000 in unearned pay and bonuses.
Beale, 65, admitted to missing more than 2ï½½ years of work at the EPA over the last decade, during which he claimed to work for the CIA on missions that kept him away from his job as a senior adviser in EPAç—´ Office of Air and Radiation. His lies were uncovered because he continued to receive money for 18 months after his retirement, triggering an investigation by the agencyç—´ inspector general..."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...#ixzz3o8K9latx

'The agency's inspector general, Arthur A. Elkins Jr., said that Beale was able to get away with the fraud for so long because of "an absence of even basic internal controls at the EPA."'
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...theft/2884783/



This guy got a performance bonus on top of his $120k/yr salary:

http://oversight.house.gov/wp-conten...-Statement.pdf
'An Environmental Protection Agency official spent up to six hours a day on the taxpayer dime looking at pornography, according to the EPA Inspector General.
Allan Williams, the deputy assistant inspector general for investigations, told the House Oversight Committee Wednesday that his office had discovered an EPA official who habitually watched porn on a government computer.
“One such investigation involves a career EPA employee who allegedly stored pornographic materials on an EPA network server shared by colleagues,” Williams testified. “When an OIG special agent arrived at this employee’s work space to conduct an interview, the special agent witnessed the employee actively viewing pornography on his government-issued computer. Subsequently, the employee confessed to spending, on average, between two and six hours per day viewing pornography while at work. The OIG’s investigation determined that the employee downloaded and viewed more than 7,000 pornographic files during duty hours.”'


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...eberg/8804437/

"• Office of Administration Director Renee Page sold jewelry and weight loss products from her office during business hours, according to an inspector general's report. The report said she also hired 17 family members and friends as interns, and that she arranged for her daughter, also an EPA employee, to get a cash bonus out of her budget. Page did not return an e-mail seeking comment.

• An EPA employee with a work-from-home job did no work for five years — and still earned a total of $600,000 and performance bonuses. She retired after an inspector general investigation.

• Another unnamed employee kept getting regular paychecks for more than a year after moving to an assisted living facility. The Justice Department is investigating."

[PoppaWheelie]

Has anyone spoken with a dealer about current trade for a new'ish (ie should have some value) tdi wagon? Relative to the market these cars aren't horribly expensive but they're not cheap either and $2k loyalty cash for a gasser that gets 20% less mileage isn't exactly making me run to the sales team. Now if they were giving "sympathy" trade in, that might be another story. I'm curious to have the conversation but would be pissed to hear that the wagon I bought last year for $24k is now worth only $15k on trade. Also, am I right in reading that the loyalty cash is only good on a new Jetta wagon? Giving the mileage hit I'd be more inclined to go back to a hot hatch...GTI or R.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by palincss

And they never set out to catch cheating. The WVU test was commissioned to prove that the current lab tests don't accurately measure emissions; catching the cheating was a curious side effect. But now the truth is out - the testing doesn't accurately reflect what goes out on the road very well, and real world emissions are pretty much universally considerably higher than the standards. There's going to be a whole lot of fallout from this worldwide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQ4DJ6sH68

[palincss]

Originally Posted by saab2000

So you're better at getting maximum performance out of cars and better at getting them to pass emissions controls than an industrial giant like Volkswagen AG with all their resources?

They don't do emissions testing in Virginia Beach.

Your vehicle must meet Virginia's emissions inspection requirements if it is garaged in one of the localities listed below:

Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, Prince William, or Stafford
Cities of Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas or Manassas Park

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

My first impression was "of course the top execs knew about the cheat and signed off on the deception". On further reflection I can imagine some engineers designing the cheater thing without revealing it beyond their immediate circle and taking kudos/bonuses for designing a "brilliant program" that met all standards for emissions while providing excellent power and economy. If they didn't reveal their secret I can't imagine that top management would have the motivation or ability to dig deep unto engine management codes.

In the military we learned the officer in charge will always be deemed responsible for whatever happens on his watch but that doesn't mean he condoned the activity.

No kidding, why it was always, 'lonely at the top'.

CO of a ship asleep in the middle of the night, ship hits something or runs aground..that CO is relieved, always. At least in the USN.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by PoppaWheelie

Has anyone spoken with a dealer about current trade for a new'ish (ie should have some value) tdi wagon? Relative to the maker these cars aren't horribly expensive but they're not cheap either and $2k loyalty cash for a gasser that gets 20% less mileage isn't exactly making me run to the sales team. Now if they were giving "sympathy" trade in, that might be another story. I'm curious to have the conversation but would be pissed to hear that the wagon I bought last year for $24k is now worth only $15k on trade. Also, am I right in reading that the loyalty cash is only good on a new Jetta wagon? Giving the mileage hit I'd be more inclined to go back to a hot hatch...GTI or R.

I got an alignment and asked this very question Thursday. Was told until the dealer knows more, they repair/service TDI only..no selling or taking trades of any TDI at this time.

Jetta wagon gone, now a Golf wagon altho it's essentially the same car.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by PoppaWheelie

Has anyone spoken with a dealer about current trade for a new'ish (ie should have some value) tdi wagon? Relative to the maker these cars aren't horribly expensive but they're not cheap either and $2k loyalty cash for a gasser that gets 20% less mileage isn't exactly making me run to the sales team. Now if they were giving "sympathy" trade in, that might be another story. I'm curious to have the conversation but would be pissed to hear that the wagon I bought last year for $24k is now worth only $15k on trade. Also, am I right in reading that the loyalty cash is only good on a new Jetta wagon? Giving the mileage hit I'd be more inclined to go back to a hot hatch...GTI or R.

Wrong on several counts. To begin with, there is no new Jetta wagon. But also, the loyalty cash is good on a whole list of models including the GTI and the Golf R. If you're inclined towards a hot hatch, you might want to start there.