Modern steels- can they get any better?

[NHAero]

As with almost all of us, I ride for fun. And not at 28 mph under my own power. I have no idea if steel could be manipulated shape-wise in the ways that Cannondale hydroformed aluminum. If so, maybe it's possible to get much closer to the aero shapes carbon frames are coming with. Weight at the racing level doesn't matter because one can build any bike to the UCI limit of 15 pounds these days. I doubt there will be a market for this hypothetical aero steel frame components though.

Now that I have a modern carbon bike (2016 Evo hi-Mod) I have learned that the tech has progressed to a point where the ride of the bike is very smooth, so for me I no longer buy the argument that steel or Ti is better for that all-day bike. I look forward to taking my Evo off the island and trying a longer and hillier ride, and I really don't expect to be more beat up than on any other of my bikes. And even though the bike fits larger tires I am running 25mm tires.

I tend to agree with folks who say that the properties of steel may be improved but we seem to be close to the limit of wall thickness to take advantage of higher strength and stiffness.

My four drop bar bikes are now carbon, Ti, and steel. As I rotate through them, I appreciate each one and feel fortunate to have them.

[MikeD]

Remember Steelman? He used French made high strength aerospace Excel (sp?) tubing. Didn't work out too well.

[mhespenheide]

I'd be delighted if there were a carbon frame that was light, not overly stiff, had that great combination of snappy but also a little flex, fit 32mm tires, and rim brakes. I don't mind some aero touches but external cabling is mandatory. Or at least not routed through the headset.

Anyone?

Beuller?

Beuller?

No?

Then I guess I'm continuing to ride metal for a while yet.

I do wonder if you could hydroform high-end steel.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

I'd be delighted if there were a carbon frame that was light, not overly stiff, had that great combination of snappy but also a little flex, fit 32mm tires, and rim brakes. I don't mind some aero touches but external cabling is mandatory. Or at least not routed through the headset.

Anyone?

Supersix Evo Hi-Mod 2016-2018 maybe? I'm putting new wheels on my Bob Jackson that are 18mm inner width and will have the 700Cx32 GP5000 clinchers. I'll throw those in my Evo and see what clearance there is.

[dmitrik4]

Given the 47-year old dad bod sitting on top of them, I doubt the relative aero of carbon tubes would be noticeable for me. That’s not where the gains will come from

[fried bake]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

For performance riding, the difference in aero between a round tubed bike and a current gen aero optimized road frame is big, and likely to get bigger as racing bikes continue to evolve. For the old thought experiment of could you still compete on a steel frame in the pro peloton? The answer is hell no! An aero expert recently estimated that a round tubed rim brake frame was giving up something like 30-40W at 28 mph. (Super interesting podcast here: https://escapecollective.com/podcast...es-jp-ballard/)

I would agree that weight doesn't really matter.

Now does it matter for you? I guess that becomes a question of do you compare about your performance compared to others?

I’ll give it a listen only because that seems a stunningly high figure. I get that tires and wheels can account for maybe half of that and then aero bars and even minuscule gains from hidden cables, but I’d love to see some detailed testing data. Anyway you’ve got my attention.

[weisan]

never say never

[robt57]

Well maybe just this time.

Originally Posted by weisan

never say never

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by bigbill

Lightweight is overrated, IMO.

Well, as someone who A) lives in a 2nd-floor walkup, and B) stores his bike hanging on a wall ~6' off the ground, I would qualify ^^^that statement as "Lighweight is overrated while you're riding the bike." Still, I wouldn't mind a sub-16lb bike just to save wear&tear on my body during those lifting moments.

But yeah, as soon as I strap two 24oz water bottles on my bike, it doesn't matter what they weighed unloaded. And then I get on it, now all bets are off.

Funny story, during yesterday's club ride a guy came up to me -- a guy who, fwiw, was at least 90 seconds behind me on a ~2 mile climb -- and said "boy, you sure climb well on that steel frame." I didn't bother telling him that I usually climb less-well on my carbon bike. :smh:

[fa63]

To clarify, he was referring to a complete package, as in an aero bike with aero wheels, cockpit, and frame. Frame alone is maybe 10 Watts at 28 mph, more like 3-5 Watts at normal human speeds.

Originally Posted by KonaSS

An aero expert recently estimated that a round tubed rim brake frame was giving up something like 30-40W at 28 mph. (Super interesting podcast here: https://escapecollective.com/podcast...es-jp-ballard/)

[flying]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Aero doesnt matter at all to some people, like me. I ride alone 95% of the time, and I ride to enjoy myself, get exercise, see new places and new roads. If I'm giving up xxx watts at 28mph it simply doesnt matter, and if I'm going 28mph, I'm probably coasting downhill.

What matters to me is a bike is comfortable, fits well, easy to maintain and looks good (to me).

Exactly the same for me albeit these days I ride with my wife.

I recently saw a video on "aero" & a lot of it was about how BS the industry is on that. How they use a wind tunnel then keep changing the position/yaw slightly till they get bragging rights..Not that it matter one iota to most riders in reality of their rides.

But yes at the end of the day.... we just ride

[robt57]

Honestly, my 25 year old Strong Foco road frame with pear teardrop DT and 1-1/8" HT light, stiff, and with clean cables setup not enough loss of aero to matter. Especially with 67 year old legs/lungs.

My English is way cleaner and certainly more aero. So a 50 mile ride I finish a few minutes earlier. Plus here wind and angles rains all over that parade usually...

[robt57]

Originally Posted by flying

But yes at the end of the day.... we just ride

For me no point to finishing rides in less time frankly. And in fast groups there is an awful lot of dirty air disturbing the equation. Not that I do that anymore. fast or group...

[flying]

Originally Posted by robt57

For me no point to finishing rides in less time frankly. And in fast groups there is an awful lot of dirty air disturbing the equation. Not that I do that anymore. fast or group...

You know its funny but when I was young I spent every ride head down trying to beat a previous time.....I sure missed a lot. Now I look around & smile a lot.

[JMT3]

I like to go fast and like to ride PB on known courses to me. I occasionally do team rides and no longer race. The bike is just my way of staying fit and having fun. I have 5 carbon bikes, 2 road, one gravel, one fat and one MTB. The bike I spend the most time on is titanium. Not aero but I do go the fastest on it. Also not my lightest since my two carbon road bikes and gravel bike are all under 15 lbs. My titanium bike is 16.1 lbs with the daily wheels on it. I’ve owned plenty of steel bikes and do see one in my future as in older with downtube shifters. All my other bikes are lifers unless I break one of them and then it will get replaced. At soon to be 67 my fast days are not over but I’m sure it’s just over the horizon.