OT - Same Attorney General Baltimore Cops/Tom & Bishop

[DreaminJohn]

First, I have no dog in this fight in terms of any beef with the police. Some of y'all are quite passionate about your stated position of the police being the bad guys here. I respect your opinion and your passion both.

That being said, the issue of charging these 6 officers NOW (once they got the correct people) seems rather premature in light of the stories by the Washington Post and others saying Freddie's wounds could be self-inflicted. Again, the chance of that seems small and the officers could quite possibly be guilty. But history has demonstrated time and again that the initial perception doesn't equal evidence. Why not wait?

By charging them before the investigation is completed she is running the risk of ruining the lives of these 6 individuals. Yes, if wrongfully accused they'll get their big paydays but I'd argue that's too big a price to pay in an effort to quell riots (especially when the cynic in me thinks they'll riot again regardless of verdict) and/or make some headlines. Why not wait?

And PLEASE don't tell me about Freddie's life being ruined . That's not the point I was making and I hope that's obvious.

Yes, things can get complicated. I just hope she's right about this particular self-inflicted complication.

Peace. Truly.

[Vientomas]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Funny. Good one.

Police had probable cause. Which is why he ran.




What kind of federal investigator where you????

Police had nothing before he ran. Running provided the legal basis for a stop, not an arrest.

You do know PC is for an arrest and reasonable suspicions is for a stop?

Running away in a high crime area can provide RS for a stop, not PC for an arrest. There is a difference.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by DreaminJohn

First, I have no dog in this fight in terms of any beef with the police. Some of y'all are quite passionate about your stated position of the police being the bad guys here. I respect your opinion and your passion both.

That being said, the issue of charging these 6 officers NOW (once they got the correct people) seems rather premature in light of the stories by the Washington Post and others saying Freddie's wounds could be self-inflicted. Again, the chance of that seems small and the officers could quite possibly be guilty. But history has demonstrated time and again that the initial perception doesn't equal evidence. Why not wait?

By charging them before the investigation is completed she is running the risk of ruining the lives of these 6 individuals. Yes, if wrongfully accused they'll get their big paydays but I'd argue that's too big a price to pay in an effort to quell riots (especially when the cynic in me thinks they'll riot again regardless of verdict) and/or make some headlines. Why not wait?

And PLEASE don't tell me about Freddie's life being ruined . That's not the point I was making and I hope that's obvious.

Yes, things can get complicated. I just hope she's right about this particular self-inflicted complication.

Peace. Truly.

to be accurate, the washington post did not 'report' that, not in the journalistic sense of independently investigated and concluded.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...18e_story.html

what the post 'reported' were statements by authorities as part of a cover story the BPD were trying to sell. no independent expert has come forward to collaborate the theory of self-inflicted wounds. it was a smoke screen by the BPD. and no further articles in the post have buttressed that official line.

also to be accurate, an investigation was complete when the cops were charged. actually two investigations were complete, the one by the cops and the one by the state's attorney's office. they were done concurrently and independently. the meme of 'incomplete investigation' is another smoke screen by the BPD and certain 'news' organizations to try to delegitimize the state's attorney and charges. more investigating will be done but it was not unusual to charge at that point.

but something is unusual here. cops being held accountable on a police force notorious for its brutality and violations of civil rights.

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by Vientomas

Police had nothing before he ran. Running provided the legal basis for a stop, not an arrest.

You do know PC is for an arrest and reasonable suspicions is for a stop?

Running away in a high crime area can provide RS for a stop, not PC for an arrest. There is a difference.

All what he said.

I dealt in white collar crime - you know, the stuff that costs you way, way, way more actual money than street crime, but yet hardly anyone ever goes to jail or prison. I was at the SEC and CFTC. With agencies that were underfunded, we got blocked by lobbying and well, you saw what happened in 2008, but I digress.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

I dealt in white collar crime - you know, the stuff that costs you way, way, way more actual money than street crime, but yet hardly anyone ever goes to jail or prison.

I'm sure things would be different if street criminals could afford Gucci Gulch lobbyists.

[mister]

don't think he had an actual switchblade...

[93legendti]

Here's a chuckle:



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...505-story.html

"Police charges in Freddie Gray case are incompetent at best:

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby's "quick" and "decisive" action in charging six Baltimore police officers a mere two weeks after the death of Freddie Gray reflects either incompetence or an unethical recklessness...

The Fraternal Office of Police called Ms. Mosby's charges an "egregious rush to judgment." It smacks more of a calculated push to the spotlight, filing charges after a mere two weeks. She conducted her own "parallel" investigation using her police integrity unit (the only unit listed on her published staffing tree missing the name of a supervisor.) She had no time to evaluate the crucial autopsy report, or consult with experts about its implications. In her haste to step into the national limelight, she circumvented normal charging procedures by grabbing a member of the sheriff's office to swear to their truth and file them for her. She calculated her actions for surprise and maximum effect, and she got it.

Published ethical standards prohibit the use of a prosecutor's powers for political (crowd control) or personal (career ambition) purposes. They demand that prosecutors be fair and objective and protect the innocence. Instead Ms. Mosby, without all of the evidence yet available to her, pandered to the public by promising "justice" for Freddie Gray...

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe."



Page Croyder spent 21 years in the Baltimore state's attorneys office, most recently as a deputy state's attorney. Her blog can be seen here: http://pagecroyder.blogspot.com.

[mister]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Here's a chuckle:



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...505-story.html

"Police charges in Freddie Gray case are incompetent at best:

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby's "quick" and "decisive" action in charging six Baltimore police officers a mere two weeks after the death of Freddie Gray reflects either incompetence or an unethical recklessness...

The Fraternal Office of Police called Ms. Mosby's charges an "egregious rush to judgment." It smacks more of a calculated push to the spotlight, filing charges after a mere two weeks. She conducted her own "parallel" investigation using her police integrity unit (the only unit listed on her published staffing tree missing the name of a supervisor.) She had no time to evaluate the crucial autopsy report, or consult with experts about its implications. In her haste to step into the national limelight, she circumvented normal charging procedures by grabbing a member of the sheriff's office to swear to their truth and file them for her. She calculated her actions for surprise and maximum effect, and she got it.

Published ethical standards prohibit the use of a prosecutor's powers for political (crowd control) or personal (career ambition) purposes. They demand that prosecutors be fair and objective and protect the innocence. Instead Ms. Mosby, without all of the evidence yet available to her, pandered to the public by promising "justice" for Freddie Gray...

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe."



Page Croyder spent 21 years in the Baltimore state's attorneys office, most recently as a deputy state's attorney. Her blog can be seen here: http://pagecroyder.blogspot.com.

"The Fraternal Office of Police..."

of course they are going to say that. jeez..

at this point just let the jury decide if the knife was legal or not.
i doubt anyone will go to jail for second degree murder but i think some of the lesser charges are probably reasonable.

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by mister

"The Fraternal Office of Police..."

of course they are going to say that. jeez..

My thoughts too - that article was one step shy of saying "we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

Report from ME in (was ruled a homicide) - police report in - and the same people who said "let the system play out" are now saying "whoa, system, too fast"

[Rueda Tropical]

The Baltimore Sun:

Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil rights violations. Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson.

Those cases detail a frightful human toll. Officers have battered dozens of residents who suffered broken bones — jaws, noses, arms, legs, ankles — head trauma, organ failure, and even death, coming during questionable arrests. Some residents were beaten while handcuffed; others were thrown to the pavement.

That's a government department out of control. $5.7 million paid out by the city of Baltimore for police misconduct since 2011.

Government employees should respect the constitution, respect the law and respect the citizens they serve. If they can't do that they should find other employment. To demand they be given free reign to break the law as a condition of employment is completely unacceptable. This isn't Putin's Russia.

[Louis]

Given that the Texas National Guard seems to have nothing important to do these days, maybe Gov. Abbott can lend them to the the city of Baltimore where they can keep an eye on the local police instead of keeping tabs on the US Army.

[mister]

Originally Posted by Louis

Given that the Texas National Guard seems to have nothing important to do these days, maybe Gov. Abbott can lend them to the the city of Baltimore where they can keep an eye on the local police instead of keeping tabs on the US Army.

haha, that whole thing is ridiculous.

[Vientomas]

Originally Posted by Louis

Given that the Texas National Guard seems to have nothing important to do these days, maybe Gov. Abbott can lend them to the the city of Baltimore where they can keep an eye on the local police instead of keeping tabs on the US Army.

What do you mean nothing better to do? They are ensuring that martial law does not come to the great State of Texas.

I find it strange that former Gov. Perry had no issues with the same type of "war games" being conducted under his tenure. However, there was a different POTUS at that time. Perhaps that explains it.

[choke]

Originally Posted by Louis

Given that the Texas National Guard seems to have nothing important to do these days, maybe Gov. Abbott can lend them to the the city of Baltimore where they can keep an eye on the local police instead of keeping tabs on the US Army.

That was actually the Texas State Guard, not the NG. https://txmf.us/texas-state-guard

The mission of the Texas State Guard (TXSG) is to provide mission-ready military forces to assist state and local authorities in times of state emergencies; to conduct homeland security and community service activities under the umbrella of Defense Support to Civil Authorities; and to augment the Texas Army National Guard and Texas Air National Guard as required.

[Louis]

I'm guessing that in the next few months all these places (bases for the Black Helicopters flown by Iranian and Al-Queda pilots) will be shut down: