Campy Potenza...Anyone tried it??

[tombtfslpk]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Fwiw, Campy hasn't really sold Potenza as the "gravel group." They pushed it as a wider gear range for those really awful, but still paved, road climbs after everyone barked they wouldn't make anything taller than a 29 rear.

I don't recall anyone saying Potenza is a "gravel" group. The OP asked about using in on gravel. Perhaps Campagnolo should address the fact that their "Ultegra equivalent" groupset is not gravel compatible. Given the fact that the groupsets from Super Record through Potenza all have plastic derailleur knuckles(not the place to save weight...or money), the end user needs to understand the limitations of the Group. Those "really awful, but still paved, road climbs" tend to be followed (sometimes) by really awful, but paved, descents.
Since Irma came through last week, I have had to keep my wife off of her Chorus equipped bike because our otherwise smooth roads are littered with fallen limbs and "gravel".

I have many gravel races and thousands of miles (in some of the worst conditions imaginable) on my "gravel" bike with SRAM Force without one single mechanical failure. I'm not going to put myself in those conditions without confidence in my equipment. The rider has enough troubles as it is.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by tombtfslpk

I don't recall anyone saying Potenza is a "gravel" group. The OP asked about using in on gravel. Perhaps Campagnolo should address the fact that their "Ultegra equivalent" groupset is not gravel compatible. Given the fact that the groupsets from Super Record through Potenza all have plastic derailleur knuckles(not the place to save weight...or money), the end user needs to understand the limitations of the Group. Those "really awful, but still paved, road climbs" tend to be followed (sometimes) by really awful, but paved, descents.
Since Irma came through last week, I have had to keep my wife off of her Chorus equipped bike because our otherwise smooth roads are littered with fallen limbs and "gravel".

I have many gravel races and thousands of miles (in some of the worst conditions imaginable) on my "gravel" bike with SRAM Force without one single mechanical failure. I'm not going to put myself in those conditions without confidence in my equipment. The rider has enough troubles as it is.

Sure, but its also intended use. I doubt Campy designed this with the thought of "Southern Cross plus Six Gap" kinda stuff. Because of the gearing range, people are slapping it on gravel bikes doing all sorts of gnarly stuff when its just your standard road group with a wider gear range.

It ain't like SRAM with their clutched derailleurs or Shimano's cross compatibility with throwing mtn and road bits together. Campy's open about what they do: road race groups, and that's pretty much it. Potenza is a nod to the MAMILs out there, but even then Vicenza was dragged kicking and screaming.

And yeah, stuff breaks. You eat any kind of significant debris into a derailleur, I don't care what the knuckle's made out of, its going to be a bad time.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Fwiw, Campy hasn't really sold Potenza as the "gravel group." They pushed it as a wider gear range for those really awful, but still paved, road climbs after everyone barked they wouldn't make anything taller than a 29 rear.

And ultegra isn't advertised as a 'gravel' group either but either can be used on dirt roads..for some other poster to say Potenza 'isn't gravel compatible' is silly. SR/Record raced on stranda bianchi and P-R and Flanders w/o issue.

But inspite of some interest here, 'gravel' is still a small segment and shimano and Campagnolo still market their groups as 'road' groups, primarily.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

And ultegra isn't advertised as a 'gravel' group either but either can be used on dirt roads..for some other poster to say Potenza 'isn't gravel compatible' is silly. SR/Record raced on stranda bianchi and P-R and Flanders w/o issue.

But inspite of some interest here, 'gravel' is still a small segment and shimano and Campagnolo still market their groups as 'road' groups, primarily.

Sure, but everyone's got a different definition of "dirt road." Just spent a week on dirt roads that were everything from glorified stream beds to the nicely manicured double track dirt forest service fire road.

Taking a road group, any road group, into some kind of hellish muddy and rock strewn existence and then getting whingy when something breaks in an extreme use case is a bit unfair imo. And to your point, if the plastic knuckle really is a weakpoint, then I think you'd see more failures in the extreme pro races. But you don't really.

Or just pick a better line and don't ride over crap that'll kill your equipment, either way.

[tombtfslpk]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

And ultegra isn't advertised as a 'gravel' group either but either can be used on dirt roads..for some other poster to say Potenza 'isn't gravel compatible' is silly. SR/Record raced on stranda bianchi and P-R and Flanders w/o issue.

But inspite of some interest here, 'gravel' is still a small segment and shimano and Campagnolo still market their groups as 'road' groups, primarily.

Certainly you're more of a Campagnolo expert then me. But when the rear Derailleur knuckle SHAKES itself apart after twenty miles of fire roads, that is NOT gravel compatible. No sticks, no crashes just the chain bouncing up and down on that plastic pivot. You might be confidant, not me. If I'm forty miles from the car, I'm screwed.
You say SR/Record has a pedigree of diminished condition races. I wasn't there, so I don't know that those bikes didn't have a previous generation Derailleur that still had metal knuckles. Or a proprietary, factory supplied, team only, rear derailleur.

[tombtfslpk]

BUT the OP wanted to speak to someone who ACTUALLY USES Potenza.
I offered my feedback because I ACTUALLY USE Potenza on MY OWN BIKE, not some customers bike. Despite what you seem to think, I'm not an amateur or MAMIL. If something falls apart and leaves me stranded, I'm not confident recommending it to others.
Face Facts, the derailleur knuckle is PLASTIC. Not so on Shimano or SRAM.
I didn't try to break the rear derailleur it FAILED.

Sorry to shout, but "experts" without practical knowledge really get on my nerves.
My SRAM Force bike might spit it's drivetrain on the ground tomorrow, but it made it through those same sections of road dozens of times.
Potenza rear derailleur failed on the first trip through there.
The shifters still do what I bought them for, I wanted shifters that wouldn't upshift too many gears at a time with my hands in the drops, on a chattering road surface. Something I fail to have the dexterity to accomplish at times.

[m4rk540]

Tom, glad to hear your input. A lot of customers and clients inquire about Potenza as they're not the type of people who spend hours searching for UK deals on Record and Super Record. I've had a few reservations about Potenza. It just feels delicate. But the newer 10s Centaur and Veloce groups felt delicate and they performed for a bunch of ham-fisted riders I know. Just curious, how did your RD fail? What you do describe is not a common failure for RD even in the most extreme conditions. Also, to be clear on terms, by plastic you mean the composite used which is (techno)polymer reinforced with fiberglass for Potenza and carbon for Record and Super Record?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by tombtfslpk

Okay, got it.
I don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't know how to pick a line, or ride challenging conditions.
I'm whiny, and misapply the parts I put on bikes.

BUT the OP wanted to speak to someone who ACTUALLY USES Potenza.
I offered my feedback because I ACTUALLY USE Potenza on MY OWN BIKE, not some customers bike. Despite what you seem to think, I'm not an amateur or MAMIL. If something falls apart and leaves me stranded, I'm not confident recommending it to others.
Face Facts, the derailleur knuckle is PLASTIC. Not so on Shimano or SRAM.
I didn't try to break the rear derailleur it FAILED.

Sorry to shout, but "experts" without practical knowledge really get on my nerves.
My SRAM Force bike might spit it's drivetrain on the ground tomorrow, but it made it through those same sections of road dozens of times.
Potenza rear derailleur failed on the first trip through there.
The shifters still do what I bought them for, I wanted shifters that wouldn't upshift too many gears at a time with my hands in the drops, on a chattering road surface. Something I fail to have the dexterity to accomplish at times.

Obviously I'm not making friends or positively influencing people here, so I'll shut up.

Did you warranty it? Sorry it failed, the other gent with the stick in the der had 4000 miles and the stick killed it. BUT i'd attempt to warranty, then sell it and get a metal knuckled one like Veloce, Centaur, Athena..

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by tombtfslpk

But when the rear Derailleur knuckle SHAKES itself apart after twenty miles of fire roads, that is NOT gravel compatible. No sticks, no crashes just the chain bouncing up and down on that plastic pivot.

i'm certainly not doubting your personal experience, but i would say that there must have been a manufacturing flaw or something in your particular RD. i've now got over 1000 miles on my gravel bike, over some VERY challenging roads using the potenza mid cage RD, and no problems. So, i would say that any RD that shakes itself apart over 20 miles of bad roads is NOT typical of all potenza RDs. you just had a bad apple, that's all.

[tombtfslpk]

m4rk540, the derailleur knuckle is a hollow two piece bonded structure. In the Potenza long cage it contains a wee little sprocket and gear that essentially adds "B" screw as you shift to larger cogs. On my derailleur the bonding beneath the knuckle separated, and then fractured through the upper portion through the threads for the high limit screw.

[tombtfslpk]

Angry Scientist, the roads I was traveling were not quite as bad as your first photo, the clear lines were a little better. But, when encountering these condition on a pretty rapid descent, in say the 11,12, or 13 cog on the cassette the derailleur is so far rearward that the chain essentially overpowers the derailleur (even clutching derailleurs), all of that vibration is concentrated in the knuckle.

I did not pursue a warranty replacement (though I bought from a US supplier), I'm not sure what I would do with a replacement. I wouldn't have the confidence to use it, or resell it.
I probably did get a bad apple part, but as I studied the break I could understand the potential for failure in the future. The previous generations from Campy had the knuckle constructed from aluminum (Centaur, Athena 11 comes to mind).
The shifting did begin to degrade before the derailleur failed, I'm assuming the bonding was failing (or failed) at this time. That left the upper half flexing which allowed for the failure.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=AngryScientist;2235606]i'm certainly not doubting your personal experience, but i would say that there must have been a manufacturing flaw or something in your particular RD. i've now got over 1000 miles on my gravel bike, over some VERY challenging roads using the potenza mid cage RD, and no problems. So, i would say that any RD that shakes itself apart over 20 miles of bad roads is NOT typical of all potenza RDs. you just had a bad apple, that's all.




Yee gads man, you need a ferrule on the end of that der housing as it enters the rear der...

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yee gads man, you need a ferrule on the end of that der housing as it enters the rear der...

i ran out

[tombtfslpk]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Did you warranty it? Sorry it failed, the other gent with the stick in the der had 4000 miles and the stick killed it. BUT i'd attempt to warranty, then sell it and get a metal knuckled one like Veloce, Centaur, Athena..

I considered getting or concocting an Athena long cage, but that little internal cog that Potenza long cage has must be there to improve shifting on an 11-32 cassette.
I needed to used the bike the next weekend, we were riding the Silver Comet to Anniston, because that bike is the only one that easily accepts panniers.
If Athena long cage might not shift as well as Potenza (that wee cog), and given the time crunch, I decided to go another route. I dug through my parts pile and put a SRAM RED derailleur on it. It wasn't a long cage, I knew it wouldn't like that 11-32 cassette, I wouldn't go off road with the carbon cage anyway, but the indexing was really close. Next up was a SRAM X9 mountain bike derailleur, it was happy with the cassette and really shifts as good as the Potenza ever did during the several hundred road miles before it broke. At this point I'm comfortable that an Athena long cage won't shift better than my current setup, I might reconsider another rear derailleur in the future, I'm watching Campy to see what products they come out with.

[Alan]

Has anyone seen the Centaur r der in person? Not sure if it is all metal or not.
The cage looks to be a traditional long cage as on the previous generations.

If they show up in the US I want to buy a full groupset. Some UK sites have it but not so much in the US.

Alan