What to do when builder becomes unresponsive?

[ANAO]

TL;dr version - a few buddies and I ponied up for some custom frames in 2015 and have lost contact with the builder. What do we do?
----------------------
Full story:

In June of 2015, I reached out to a builder about a possible sponsorship for the team I ran. We would commit to a minimum of 4 (maybe more) custom frames and in return, he would give us 25% off. We would all race them and put his name all over our kit. Builder said he was barely making enough to survive and respectfully declined. I was itching for a custom bike myself, so continued shopping around. In August, he reached out to me and I still had not found a builder I wanted to use for my first custom bike. The builder said he had some free time slotted out that winter and wanted to take on the project.

We redesigned the kits and 4 of us sent in our deposits. I talked him up to my friends, one of which I convinced to jump in the queue before us. He got to working, and was super responsive and very knowledgeable (he used to weld for Spooky before they went belly-up before their current revival) and was just a generally nice guy. He lamented the business decisions of Spooky that led to their demise and he vowed to not make the same mistakes. Awesome. The winter turned to spring and, as it always does, spring to summer. And still, we had no bikes. He continued to post small repairs he was doing on instagram, but not many pictures of our bikes.

From the onset, he told us each bike took about 40 hours of work, but he was also a bike messenger to make ends meet, so he needed about 1 month per frame.

In July of 2016, he reached out to my friend to let him know his bike was done and was ready to go to painting. My friend was psyched and we were chatting about it every day, or every other day and we both couldn't wait to get our bikes. September 1, the builder messaged me to let me know that my tubes were being mitered and getting ready to build mine up. And then, radio silence again. For a few months this time. Usually, it was a few weeks at a time. For a younger frame builder who was generally on their phone pretty often, this was worrisome.

In January (of 2017), he reached out to let me know that he's been in and out of rehab for drug addiction and the past 15 months since we had originally began working together had been extremely tough but he promised that the projects were well underway, he was on the up and up and he was going to deliver them in time for the 2017 race season.

I was skeptical, but hopeful (forever the optimist, doing me in again). Since then, he's been mostly MIA. I get little snippets of information from time to time, such as he's having difficulty paying rent, his phone was turned off/broken so he has no access to social media, and other tales of woe which make my gut wrench. I really feel terrible for the guy and I let him know as much. In fact, the most often used phrase I say to him is along the lines of, "get healthy, dude. A bike is just a bike."

At the same time, we have many dollars invested with him, and we do want our bikes, and at this point, we have no idea if we'll ever see them or the parts we sent him to build the bikes up for us. There are 4 bikes total he's supposed to be building (one of the guys walked away from his deposit after about a year). My friend had reached out to his sister through social media and she was able to touch base with him, about a month ago, and told us that he will reach out about getting us the raw materials, whatever state they were in, so that perhaps we could at least recoup some parts/have somebody else finish the builds.

We haven't heard from him.

What's the next step? It's a tough situation.
-----
Edited to add: builder's name is Billy. If you think you know Billy and you can help he or I out, please get in touch.

[FlashUNC]

Personally? Write it off, take stock of what you can learn from the whole mess, and move on.

I doubt you're ever seeing those parts again, much less finished bikes.

[AngryScientist]

it's refreshing that you named the builder right away. excellent.

i honestly dont think you have many options. you can't get blood out of a stone, and obviously your deposit moneys were spent many months ago on who knows what.

i was considering adding other points here, but honestly - i know how you must feel and it is frustrating, and i hope you can find some peace given the situation. it is probably unlikely to end with a good outcome for you guys.

[ANAO]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

it's refreshing that you named the builder right away. excellent.

i honestly dont think you have many options. you can't get blood out of a stone, and obviously your deposit moneys were spent many months ago on who knows what.

i was considering adding other points here, but honestly - i know how you must feel and it is frustrating, and i hope you can find some peace given the situation. it is probably unlikely to end with a good outcome for you guys.

I removed his information because I didn't know if it was in poor taste. I still don't know how I'm supposed to feel about all of this.

[biker72]

Originally Posted by flashunc

personally? Write it off, take stock of what you can learn from the whole mess, and move on.

I doubt you're ever seeing those parts again, much less finished bikes.

+1

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by ANAO

I removed his information because I didn't know if it was in poor taste. I still don't know how I'm supposed to feel about all of this.

you dont?

you entered into a contract with someone, fulfilled your end of the agreement and didnt get what you paid for. pretty black and white to me.

[ANAO]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

you dont?

you entered into a contract with someone, fulfilled your end of the agreement and didnt get what you paid for. pretty black and white to me.

Yes but addiction is a terrible thing and I'm having a tough time holding him responsible. It's getting harder and harder to give him the benefit of the doubt though, as the doubt dries up.

[jruhlen1980]

Originally Posted by ANAO

TL;dr version - a few buddies and I ponied up for some custom frames in 2015 and have lost contact with the builder. What do we do?

What's the next step? It's a tough situation.

Walk away. Sure you could sue for the deposit and probably get a judgment, but the world could be wallpapered with uncollectable judgments. We all know that money is long gone.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by ANAO

Yes but addiction is a terrible thing and I'm having a tough time holding him responsible. It's getting harder and harder to give him the benefit of the doubt though, as the doubt dries up.

By your own timeline of events, he reached out to you to do this project. And is multiple years late. Yes, the reasons for the delay are tragic and horrible and anyone with an ounce of empathy can feel for the guy.

But there's nothing wrong with naming someone who's years late on a project.

[seanile]

name him. prevent others from making the same mistake, and, this is pessimistic of me, potentially becoming a mark if his rehab fails again..

[Ken Robb]

I've had several similar experiences and two of them were with guys/companies with solid reputations but situations can change while you wait to get to the head of the line. Injuries, disease, addictions, divorce can all transform a builder's performance from sublime to disaster. We have a number of first class builders in our group and I would only deal with someone with an IMPECCABLE reputation over quite a few years.
I doubt that there is any likelihood that you can recover money or parts from this guy.

[MattTuck]

It is a tough one. Is the guy a few hours drive from you?

I'd say your course of action is based on what your envisioned outcome is. If it is simply to get your parts back, then I'd go visit the guy and tell him you want your stuff back. A few hours drive may sort out the whole thing, and you can atleast be done with it, and get closure (either way it turns out).

If you actually want the bikes, then I'd probably go visit him, and make an appeal and offer to help in whatever way you can, to get the bikes to completion. I know that sucks to insert yourself into an addict's life. and the probability of success is probably low.

All that said, the guy may have already sold your parts for dope, and you might be drilling a dry well.

Once you close the book on it, you might consider posting some of the lessons you learn to this thread I started a while ago. so that others can learn from your experience.

[ANAO]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

It is a tough one. Is the guy a few hours drive from you?

I'd say your course of action is based on what your envisioned outcome is. If it is simply to get your parts back, then I'd go visit the guy and tell him you want your stuff back. A few hours drive may sort out the whole thing, and you can atleast be done with it, and get closure (either way it turns out).

If you actually want the bikes, then I'd probably go visit him, and make an appeal and offer to help in whatever way you can, to get the bikes to completion. I know that sucks to insert yourself into an addict's life. and the probability of success is probably low.

All that said, the guy may have already sold your parts for dope, and you might be drilling a dry well.

Once you close the book on it, you might consider posting some of the lessons you learn to this thread I started a while ago. so that others can learn from your experience.

His shop is 4 miles from my office in brooklyn.

But - his sister said he's in a rehab facility (in and out between that and a halfway house) and the stuff is in storage. Man, what I would give to get into that storage unit.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[zzy]

If it's the Billy I'm thinking of, you probably won't see the frames and are best leaving this be.
e - now that he's been named I don't think it's right to post anything else semi-publicly.

[sandyrs]

Yeah, I'd probably live my life going forward under the assumption that this is an entirely sunk cost, and any returned parts or tubes would be a welcome but unexpected bonus.

Sorry to hear that a really cool-sounding project ended up going this way.