Wide tires, wide rims, how wide ?

[donevwil]

I'm exploring having a set of either 26" or 650b wheels built for Compass Rat Trap Pass 26"x2.3" or Switchback Hill 650b x 48mm, respectively. This will be for an oh-so-trendy all-road type bike intended to open up some light, mixed road touring opportunities that my current bike with a 32mm limit is not well suited for. Total weight with rider could be as high as 300#.

Anyone have experience with how these tires perform on rims of varying widths? 21mm, 25mm, 30mm, 35mm inside to inside? It's amazing the options that exist in the MTB 26" and 650b world.

When I went from 21mm o-o to 25 o-o rims with my Compass 32s the change/improvement was VERY noticeable, same with the above change and Compass 38s. It's hard to imagine a 30mm i-i MTB rim being optimal for a 48mm road tire, but I've never heard otherwise.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Those two tires are only a couple mm different in width in practice.

I don't think i30 would be too wide, no. Neither do I think you need to go that wide to reap the benefits. I recently chose i23 (Crest Mk3) for Switchback Hills because it's wide enough and a VERY LIGHT rim. I also ran 42mm Pari Motos on i26.6 Blunt SS and did not find those rims to be too wide for the tires.

Sounds like you may require a pretty stout rim design so you're going to have to find the intersection of "wide enough" and "not too heavy" that you can accept.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

Those two tires are only a couple mm different in width in practice.

I don't think i30 would be too wide, no. Neither do I think you need to go that wide to reap the benefits. I recently chose i23 (Crest Mk3) for Switchback Hills because it's wide enough and a VERY LIGHT rim. I also ran 42mm Pari Motos on i26.6 Blunt SS and did not find those rims to be too wide for the tires.

Sounds like you may require a pretty stout rim design so you're going to have to find the intersection of "wide enough" and "not too heavy" that you can accept.

Good comparison and yes, I'd prefer something "wide enough", "not too heavy" and, of course, "priced right". My preference would be 36h in the rear, but it appears that limits me to Velocity in the wide MTB world. Too bad they don't make a 26" Blunt SS, but the Blunt 35 may not be too off base and i25WTBs at 32h are an option as well. I'm leaning 26" in an effort to make it a budget build, saving money for an ultimate, higher end 650b set.

[jmoore]

Expand this thread to include 700c wheels and I'm super interested. Up to 40s is optimal tire width. Pacenti Forza is my preferred rim but I'm open to other suggestions. H+ Archtypes have always been interesting

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[ColonelJLloyd]

I assume we are talking about disc specific rims.

What geometry considerations are at play with deciding between 26" or 650b? The price difference isn't going to be that different.

Yes, 36h limits your choices in hubs and rims. Don't get hung up on marketing words. All the rims that you'll be looking at are "MTB" rims.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

I assume we are talking about disc specific rims.

What geometry considerations are at play with deciding between 26" or 650b? The price difference isn't going to be that different.

Yes, 36h limits your choices in hubs and rims. Don't get hung up on marketing words. All the rims that you'll be looking at are "MTB" rims.

Yes disc, for a low-trail Elephant NFE type bike to replace my 700c Black Mountain Monster Cross. Ultimately 26" Rat Traps have the same OD as 650b Babyshoe 42s which is the size most stock framesets available were based on, plus they play well with fenders in those applications. 650b Switchbacks would push fender clearance a bit and potentially push me more toward custom. Nothing is a deal breaker, just trying to fully understand the options since I currently have nothing committed. I'll ultimately have two sets of wheels and one 26" with big tires and one 650b with 42s, both with similar diameters, made some sense vs two 650b's at distinctly different price points and similar tire sizes.

[ColonelJLloyd]

You might want to pin down a frameset first. There are very few frames I'm aware of that would work well with 26" and 650b. Many more that would work well with 650b/700c, most of those being designed around a disc CX for with ~395-400 A-C.

In my mind, the idea of 650b for the really wide rubber (2"-2.25") and 700c for narrower (35-42mm) opens up both stock frame options and, perhaps most importantly, awesome tire choices.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by jmoore

Expand this thread to include 700c wheels and I'm super interested. Up to 40s is optimal tire width. Pacenti Forza is my preferred rim but I'm open to other suggestions. H+ Archtypes have always been interesting

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I can't imagine improving on the Forzas, 24mm wide with an OC rear, better quality than Velocity. Maybe HED + if you have the money. Archetypes are great, bombproof rims, but are narrower and heavier than the Pacenti's, no OC and the anodized brake track might not suit some as they wear. For true bombproof with a great ride I love the Mavic A719, but that doesn't appear to be what you're looking for. I run Compass Snoqualmie 44s (40 actual) on Synergies, Archetypes and the A719s and couldn't give you a quantifiable difference, but for whatever reason (maybe width) did prefer the A719s to the others.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by donevwil

I'll ultimately have two sets of wheels and one 26" with big tires and one 650b with 42s

Does anyone remember a few years ago when Hetres were big tires?

People were freakin' on having a whole 42mm of cushiness. Little did we know where this would go...

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

You might want to pin down a frameset first. There are very few frames I'm aware of that would work well with 26" and 650b. Many more that would work well with 650b/700c, most of those being designed around a disc CX for with ~395-400 A-C.

In my mind, the idea of 650b for the really wide rubber (2"-2.25") and 700c for narrower (35-42mm) opens up both stock frame options and, perhaps most importantly, awesome tire choices.

All else being equal it'll be an Elephant NFE. The one year wait, however, may make a custom enter the equation if I happen to win the lottery. I need to carry a 15-25 lb load weekly up to 30 miles and am tired of doing it on a road bike or Monster Cross (with road geo), not fun. Currently use a MonsterX with Compass 44s which are pretty nice for this application and the roads I ride so I have no desire to go smaller on this bike, but am open to larger (my primary road bike runs 32s - 38s), hence Compass 650b x 48 or 26 x 2.3.

Originally Posted by sparky33

Does anyone remember a few years ago when Hetres were big tires?

People were freakin' on having a whole 42mm of cushiness. Little did we know where this would go...

I think I'm a bit of an outlier, 300# loaded (I'm 250" all suited up) on the local disintegrating roads makes big tires a lot more practical and I do still have a road bike that fits only 25s.

[kevinvc]

I'm going on a 4 day bike trip in a couple of weeks and am trying to decide what bike / tires to ride. I'll either take my Soma ES with 32cm tires, or my Salsa Fargo with 2.35" Big Apples. The ride will be all pavement.

If I decide to camp, I'll take the Fargo since I'll be carrying more gear. If I do the hotel thing, I'll take the Soma. If there was gravel or really bad roads involved, I'd definitely take the Fargo. I have no problem riding 32cm tires on dirt or some gravel, but fatter with lower PSI is a lot more comfortable for those conditions.

[NHAero]

FWIW - I've posted previously about converting my Litespeed Unicoi YBB mountain bike to drop bars. I bought a pair of NOS American Classic disc wheels, the rims of which measure about 22.5mm outside dimension, and mounted Continental Speed King II Racesport 55-559 tires. Half the price of the RTP if bought from the UK and same weight as the Extralight RTP within grams. Great tires for my rides where I'm on both pacement and trails (and they measure out at 55mm on the AC rims)

Originally Posted by donevwil

All else being equal it'll be an Elephant NFE. The one year wait, however, may make a custom enter the equation if I happen to win the lottery. I need to carry a 15-25 lb load weekly up to 30 miles and am tired of doing it on a road bike or Monster Cross (with road geo), not fun. Currently use a MonsterX with Compass 44s which are pretty nice for this application and the roads I ride so I have no desire to go smaller on this bike, but am open to larger (my primary road bike runs 32s - 38s), hence Compass 650b x 48 or 26 x 2.3.



I think I'm a bit of an outlier, 300# loaded (I'm 250" all suited up) on the local disintegrating roads makes big tires a lot more practical and I do still have a road bike that fits only 25s.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by donevwil

All else being equal it'll be an Elephant NFE. The one year wait, however, may make a custom enter the equation if I happen to win the lottery. I need to carry a 15-25 lb load weekly up to 30 miles and am tired of doing it on a road bike or Monster Cross (with road geo), not fun. Currently use a MonsterX with Compass 44s which are pretty nice for this application and the roads I ride so I have no desire to go smaller on this bike, but am open to larger (my primary road bike runs 32s - 38s), hence Compass 650b x 48 or 26 x 2.3.

I was on the NFE list. After reaching out to some builders I put a deposit down. My frame was started a few weeks before my friend (who was right behind me in the NFE queue) got an email that his number was up. I opted for some features beyond the NFE, but had I went TIG'd and kept the features to those of the NFE (minus the wishbone stay treatment) the price would have been not quite $300 more than the NFE. And that $300 gets you custom geometry, tubing selection and your choice of color. I spec'd mine to run 50-584 with fenders and larger tires or 700c without fenders. I don't think I would have been happy with using 26" wheels for the fatter rubber. I ride a big frame, but not as big as you. Something to consider.

All that said, if the NFE geo works for you it is an excellent value.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

I was on the NFE list. After reaching out to some builders I put a deposit down. My frame was started a few weeks before my friend (who was right behind me in the NFE queue) got an email that his number was up. I opted for some features beyond the NFE, but had I went TIG'd and kept the features to those of the NFE (minus the wishbone stay treatment) the price would have been not quite $300 more than the NFE. And that $300 gets you custom geometry, tubing selection and your choice of color. I spec'd mine to run 50-584 with fenders and larger tires or 700c without fenders. I don't think I would have been happy with using 26" wheels for the fatter rubber. I ride a big frame, but not as big as you. Something to consider.

All that said, if the NFE geo works for you it is an excellent value.

I am absolutely on the same page as you, if I could afford a custom I'd go that route. Although there are plenty of awesome builders on the West Coast none that I've found, who also understand and have built low trail, can even approach the Elephant pricing. Recommendations are certainly welcome.

That said, for me the NFE is certainly a much more viable route to trying low trail than, say, a Soma or V-O, the XL is darn close to my Geo and I figure I can flip it for little loss if I hate it or decide to go custom thereafter.