OT: Clothing for winter backpacking

[kgreene10]

I don’t often post an OT on the forum, but I’m vexed by the lack of quality advice at my local REI and hoping the back country enthusiasts there might have recommendations.

My son and I will be hiking the Inca Trail over four days in Peru’s winter. Temps can be as low as 20F and as high as 70F. We will be between 7.5k and 14.5k feet of altitude. We will have tents and sleeping bags supplied by the tour company.

I hate being cold and as a skinny cyclist, I get cold very easily.

The general plan is to layer, of course. But I’m getting widely varying recommendations about the weight of each garment. Lightweight or midweight base layers? Two lightweight tops instead? Light or medium weight fleece? How warm should the parka be and how do I know how warm it is? Is REI’s 650 down fill like other brand’s 500? Do I want 700 or 800 anyway?

I have read scores of reviews but without any firm sense of what to buy.

Unfortunately, Texas isn’t likely to experience winter temps before we leave in two months, unless this climate change thing happens even faster than expected.

Specific advice from those with relevant experience would be very helpful.

[Likes2ridefar]

I get cold very easy. Evaporative heat loss is a killer for me.

I’ll offer the lone (most likely) outside the box option that I’ve successfully used backpacking in the winter, day hikes, and for extreme cold cycling…in much colder temperatures than you’ll face (-40, for example) however it’s not overkill for your range.

Rbh designs makes a vapor barrier shell (nts jacket) that is my get out of jail/cold free solution. If active, you’ll need nothing but a base layer underneath it. It is the thickness and weight of a typical goretex shell. Their vapor mittens, I use the hybrid model, are simply amazing. I don’t get why they work better than all big name brands that are much heavier insulated. But they do. They are much thinner than other brands so you have better dexterity and can even shift while riding a bike. No worries about sweating them out. If they freeze inside just blow hot air in and stick your hands in…nice and warm. I love these things! Same with the socks, and face mask.

Edit: the nts jacket costs a LOT more than when I got mine 13 years ago…double roughly. Ouch. I’d say that is a hard sell for a potential one trip use, but if worried about being cold maybe worth it!

Patagonia r1 half zip hoody is my go to base layer for most temperatures. A balaclava like hood is very useful and it zips low on the chest and is cut long to go below your pack.

I’ve never needed insulation over the rbh jacket while hiking but I go fast and hard so put out a lot of heat. If meandering along you’ll appreciate the fact your down or synthetic jacket won’t get wet even if sweating hard. I use feathered friends eos but it is expensive and may not be the best option for a few uses.

800+ fill power is what I prefer. Lots of great synthetic options too. Montbell is a great option for both down or synthetic.

For a shell for rain or snow I’d recommend getting the cheapest fitting rain jacket you can find such as reis brand. Do not get influenced by “breathable” expensive goretex options. They don’t work any better if exerting yourself and will be wet inside in no time.

[Alistair]

Like you said, layers are key, especially with the swings you’ll likely encounter.

I’m partial to wool and silk. They do well when wet and layer nicely.

The regular 4-day trip will have you walking 6-10 miles/day with a day pack (assuming you hire porters). So you won’t be heavily laden, but it’s strenuous hiking nonetheless. So you will be adding/removing layers on trail.

The tents and sleeping bags provided by the guides are generally high quality.

[Likes2ridefar]

The thing with wool is it gets wet and then it doesn’t dry. Wool is my enemy in the backcountry because of evaporative heat loss.

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

I get cold very easy. Evaporative heat loss is a killer for me.

...

800+ fill power is what I prefer. Lots of great synthetic options too. Montbell is a great option for both down or synthetic.

For a shell for rain or snow I’d recommend getting the cheapest fitting rain jacket you can find such as reis brand. Do not get influenced by “breathable” expensive goretex options. They don’t work any better if exerting yourself and will be wet inside in no time.

Cannot not say enough good things about Montbell down. Always have been great on quality and warmth to weight ratio. Very packable. I prefer 800-1000 range fill in general. 1000 fill Montbell is my favorite for a mid layer vest, jacket or lightweight parka. Always checkout the closeout section.

I generally layer wool, down and a shell.

[Likes2ridefar]

Last I checked ordering from Japan Montbell will save you a lot because our dollar is so much stronger.

[mhespenheide]

All of the backpacking tour companies I've heard of and/or worked with in Peru carry your large bags for the day, and then you carry your daypack. Is that the case for you as well?

Because, if so, it opens up some options for carrying more (and heavier) options than traditional backpacking.

For general recommendations, and assuming I'm right about my point above, I'd go with a serious down jacket with full integrated hood. If they're carrying it, it doesn't really matter whether it's 550 fill, or higher. In fact, you probably don't want an ultralight model because they're generally a bit more fragile. This goes in your main bag during the day and is really for nighttime and early mornings. Similarly, get a good-quality hat and gloves for those times as well. Probably thick fleece.

For your daytime hiking, you want layers of fleece over base layers. Some people are fans of merino wool, but modern synthetics are basically just as good (except for their ability to resist odor). Ideally, you want two shell jackets: one for rain/snow, and one for wind (but breathable). Or a softshell. You want a set of lighter gloves and hat. In general, you'll be plenty warm enough while moving. If you have a second lighter down jacket, you might bring that one in your daypack just to pull on during stops.

If you happen to be a men's large and a little on the taller side, I've got options I could sell. Or I can point you to what to look for on eBay or Craigslist, etc.

[mhespenheide]

Another thought: at least one of the Peruvian tour companies that I went with for the Hauyhuash circuit provided the bigger down jackets in addition to tent, sleeping bag, and ground pad. Check with your company to see if they do. As I said above, I did end up bringing my own UL down jacket to carry with me during the day.

[kgreene10]

Thanks all for the excellent suggestions so far.

It sounds like we have several members who have hiked the Inca Trail. For context, I did it 30 years ago during a huge snowstorm with Doc Martin’s patent leather boots and Levi’s jeans. It was miserable-awesome. No one else was on the trail.

This time, I’ll be doing it with my 12 year old son. It will be slow going. You are all correct that it will be 6-10 miles a day and porters will carry up to 8.5kg for each of us.

I’ll check out Montbell now. The Patagonia R1 mid layer was mentioned. I tried that on today and it seemed very thin. Maybe current fabrics are just hugely efficient. I’m tempted to go R2, but would that be overkill?

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

All of the backpacking tour companies I've heard of and/or worked with in Peru carry your large bags for the day, and then you carry your daypack. Is that the case for you as well?

Based on my trip, its easy to max out the 8.5kg even without heavy winter gear. The porters are optional, but most tours will include one. And for most people, it’s really a requirement - the altitude is brutal for most.

[kgreene10]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Another thought: at least one of the Peruvian tour companies that I went with for the Hauyhuash circuit provided the bigger down jackets in addition to tent, sleeping bag, and ground pad. Check with your company to see if they do. As I said above, I did end up bringing my own UL down jacket to carry with me during the day.

The company we booked with doesn’t offer jackets, unfortunately. That would have been convenient.

[kgreene10]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

Rbh designs makes a vapor barrier shell (nts jacket) that is my get out of jail/cold free solution. If active, you’ll need nothing but a base layer underneath it. It is the thickness and weight of a typical goretex shell. Their vapor mittens, I use the hybrid model, are simply amazing. I don’t get why they work better than all big name brands that are much heavier insulated. But they do. They are much thinner than other brands so you have better dexterity and can even shift while riding a bike. No worries about sweating them out. If they freeze inside just blow hot air in and stick your hands in…nice and warm. I love these things! Same with the socks, and face mask.

That jacket looks awesome! And it’s made to order. It’s certainly pricier than I was hoping to spend for this trip, especially given the similar price of a down jacket (that I would still need in addition, no?).

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by kgreene10

That jacket looks awesome! And it’s made to order. It’s certainly pricier than I was hoping to spend for this trip, especially given the similar price of a down jacket (that I would still need in addition, no?).

Yes, but when active I only ever used a cheap 60gm synthetic jacket over it and that was in negative temps and severe wind. Anything else I’d be too hot. if just standing around and not producing heat it’s a windproof shell. Once you start hiking it’ll serve you well up to maybe 40-50F before needing to vent the heat. I have vents on the sleeves and pits and no hood. it seems like the support staff you’ll have and temperatures may not justify it for just one trip. I really mentioned it because of your comment about hating being cold. This resonates deeply with me…this jacket along with the mittens and socks were a game changer for me in very cold environments.

I use my r1 just by itself regularly when hiking up mountains in sub freezing weather. I hike in the winter to summit mountains though and as mentioned go hard and don’t stop…I dont know the terrain there so maybe you need more insulation.

[kgreene10]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

Last I checked ordering from Japan Montbell will save you a lot because our dollar is so much stronger.

Wow. Prices, including shipping, seem to be about half. Sizing is clearly different though.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by kgreene10

Wow. Prices, including shipping, seem to be about half. Sizing is clearly different though.

They have US versions too. This would probably be a good choice: https://en.montbell.jp/products/good...uct_id=2301375

129 dollars…