Steelman Closing Shop?

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

The Veyron is totally overpriced. An '82 Honda Civic will get you to the grocery store just the same in rush hour traffic. Better yet, Peapod or Freshdirect can arguably get food delivered to your door faster & cheaper than the all-in cost of car ownership and the associated trips to grocery store (not to mention reduced liability), so even the '82 Civic is overpriced...

The cheapest option is to buy the Steelman and a backpack or messenger bag and ride to the store. For the sake of the bespoke community/industry, I hope these hard economic realities can be similarly addressed by other builders, everyone has a right to a comfortable living wage, especially by a highly skilled artisan. I don't want an "affordable" frame that the builder has sacrificed to produce. Bad juju. I'll save up, maybe buy fewer bikes and find other ways to save. If the economies of scale that reflect decent wages dictate higher prices for me, and the "market" shrinks as a result, then so be it. Good for Brent, I hope others feel they're able to follow suit as they crunch the numbers for themselves. I DON'T WANT A BIKE MADE IN POVERTY.

[Keith A]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Did Jack send you a free t-shirt to write this ringing endorsement?

Nice of you Pat.

Well not that Jack needs it, I'll certainly give him a second endorsement. I've had the good pleasure of meeting, dining and riding with Jack. He's had a significant amount high end stuff go through his garage and so he is able provide good information with his personal experiences.

[PaMtbRider]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Did Jack send you a free t-shirt to write this ringing endorsement?

Nice of you Pat.

He wouldn't even know my size.

[d_douglas]

It was a market observation, not a personal jab at Mr. Steelman. He is free to ask whatever he wants and I am sure there are people who will pay it. If there aren't, he will adjust his pricing/approach accordingly.

He makes gorgeous bikes and I go on record by saying that I do not agree with Mr. Brunk that Firefly or others make better bikes. As mentioned, it is a matter of taste and Steelman is more experienced than most. One may not like his personality or his business model, but I don't think his frame building chops can be called into question.

Darren


PS ow that I think of it, my first CX bike was a Bontrager with a Steelman fork - damn, I am part of the club .

[crankles]

Originally Posted by Jack Brunk

but his prices are a joke. I can get a better built, custom titanium frame either road or mountain from Firefly and others.

Originally Posted by Jack Brunk

My point is there's much better value in the market.

I only know Jack from his posts. Which means I don't know him at all.

I guess the problem I have with statements like above, especially from forumites who have a certain level of perceived expertise, is that the subjectivity is almost unassailable, yet potentially damaging. It would sadden me if such statements moved Brent to the bottom of a potential buyers list. I've owned 4 Steelmans. One still hangs in the garage. I also have two Alliances, two Speedvagens, an IF and some carbon thingamajig. I can also TIG with the worst of them. While I may not own the biggest stable on this forum, or have post counts in the zillions, I've put some mile on a fairly large range of bikes in the past ...ahem...lets say 4o+ years.

All my bikes ride great, the best riding ones have had tubesets/geometry tweaked by the builder to match my desired riding characteristics. What Brent brings to the table besides 30 years at the bench and a real knowledge of tubing/geometry, is a level of craftsmanship that often lies under the paint.

That may not be worth a dime for someone looking for the "best value", but it means something to some of us.

..and while ringing endorsements from formers customers can't hurt, the best endorsements for Brent's frames/prices have come from his fellow frame builders. They are the ones who told him his frames were worth twice what he was charging and should give it another go.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by crankles

<cut> the best endorsements for Brent's frames/prices have come from his fellow frame builders.
They are the ones who told him his frames were worth twice what he was charging and should
give it another go.

Gets it atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

[Jack Brunk]

Originally Posted by crankles

I only know Jack from his posts. Which means I don't know him at all.

I guess the problem I have with statements like above, especially from forumites who have a certain level of perceived expertise, is that the subjectivity is almost unassailable, yet potentially damaging. It would sadden me if such statements moved Brent to the bottom of a potential buyers list. I've owned 4 Steelmans. One still hangs in the garage. I also have two Alliances, two Speedvagens, an IF and some carbon thingamajig. I can also TIG with the worst of them. While I may not own the biggest stable on this forum, or have post counts in the zillions, I've put some mile on a fairly large range of bikes in the past ...ahem...lets say 4o+ years.

All my bikes ride great, the best riding ones have had tubesets/geometry tweaked by the builder to match my desired riding characteristics. What Brent brings to the table besides 30 years at the bench and a real knowledge of tubing/geometry, is a level of craftsmanship that often lies under the paint.

That may not be worth a dime for someone looking for the "best value", but it means something to some of us.

..and while ringing endorsements from formers customers can't hurt, the best endorsements for Brent's frames/prices have come from his fellow frame builders. They are the ones who told him his frames were worth twice what he was charging and should give it another go.

I haven't been the only person to state my feelings about his prices. I only stated my opinon on the matter. Any one of you are allowed to disagree with me and that's cool. I have no skin in this game. but, i will again say that based on my dealings with Hampsten, Firefly, Kirk and many others, his prices are too high for me. I'd rather have 2 Hampsten tig'd frames than 1 Steelman tig'd frame for around the same dollar amount. Sorry but it's a better deal for me around based on quality and value.. Also I haven't taken shots at anyone here. I wouldn't put too much of anything behind my opinon. It's just mine. And there was nothing about my post that was meant to be harmful to Mr. Steelman. It seems he does make very nice bikes.

[G-Reg]

Originally Posted by crankles

..... It would sadden me if such statements moved Brent to the bottom of a potential buyers list.......

If Brent or any other builder is dependant on reviews from this or any other fourm for buisness, they are doomed to begin with.

Bunks opinion was only regarding his price not his quality.

We all love to bitch about the price of a steel Serotta but that would seem a bargin in comparison.

At least that is the opinion I have.

[G-Reg]

Originally Posted by crankles

..., the best endorsements for Brent's frames/prices have come from his fellow frame builders. They are the ones who told him his frames were worth twice what he was charging and should give it another go.

Maybe they should buy his frames

[rwsaunders]

Originally Posted by Jack Brunk

I haven't been the only person to state my feelings about his prices. I only stated my opinon on the matter. Any one of you are allowed to disagree with me and that's cool. I have no skin in this game. but, i will again say that based on my dealings with Hampsten, Firefly, Kirk and many others, his prices are too high for me. I'd rather have 2 Hampsten tig'd frames than 1 Steelman tig'd frame for around the same dollar amount. Sorry but it's a better deal for me around based on quality and value.. Also I haven't taken shots at anyone here. I wouldn't put too much of anything behind my opinon. It's just mine. And there was nothing about my post that was meant to be harmful to Mr. Steelman. It seems he does make very nice bikes.

I'd have to venture that most of us do cost/value comparisons when buying any type of high end gear, and I find myself aligning with Jack's comments.

[54ny77]

these kinds of threads make me appreciate two things that i've come to do with respect to bike frames:

1) buy high end custom or semi-custom frames used.
2) buy bigbikeco. off-the-shelf high(er) end frames used.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Keith A

Well not that Jack needs it, I'll certainly give him a second endorsement. I've had the good pleasure of meeting, dining and riding with Jack. He's had a significant amount high end stuff go through his garage and so he is able provide good information with his personal experiences.

I know....I was just having a little fun. I'm pretty certain I didn't hurt Jack's feelings.

[krhea]

My comment/question was answered when Jack clarified what he meant to say. We all know a "better value" is not the same as "better build". I now understand where jack was coming from.

[Jack Brunk]

Originally Posted by charliedid

I know....I was just having a little fun. I'm pretty certain I didn't hurt Jack's feelings.

NO worries my friend it's all good.

[Spin71]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

Gets it atmo.

Yawn.