Steelman Closing Shop?

[Earl Gray]

Originally Posted by firerescuefin

Unreachable for weeks/months, miss dates, string people along...send back deposits, people post your demise on your facebook site...then, "hey, I have had a change of heart" back open for business....check out my bike of the week!

Good luck with that business model.

I like to see people put there demons behind them and I hope it happens, but some credibility needs to be reestablished.

I commend him for cutting his loses and starting fresh. He'll be happier and wealthier for it. If some folks were left out of the equation during the transition, screw um, it's a small price to pay to keep another eff builder with inflated prices around.

[54ny77]

all the things you described could be easily addressed in a contract.

not that they're the end-all-be-all, but something on paper is better than the all too common bro handshake/you'll get it when it's done timeline, along with a little hopin' and prayin' that the reality meets the expectations either in the end or along the way.

plus it (a contract) gives both parties adequate framework for redress if things go sideways. like anything, all situations are negotiable. your situation (lost job, undelivered frame but a solution that worked out for everyone) would have been the same with or without a contract, since it sounds like you worked with a good builder.

being devil's advocate, consider: what would the builder have done if, being ethical and solutions-oriented as he seems to be, instead got stiffed if you just walked away and left him hanging?

that's what i meant by protections going both ways.

Originally Posted by mistermo

And when the contract is broken (by either party), bring in the lawyers? A contract is only as good as either party's willingness to enforce it.

99.99999% of the time, when the framebuilder can't deliver and returns the deposit, the customer is cool with this.

99.99999% of the time, when a deposit it paid, and the customer walks from it, the framebuilder takes it no further.

When seeking a framebuilder, I'll always choose the ethical guy first. If a builder wants to enter into contract negotiations, even a simple one, about a bike frame, then that's a dang good sign that I'm talking to the wrong guy.

A few years ago, I put a deposit on a frame, then lost my job after it was built, but before it was delivered. I decided it was an excess I could do without. The builder found another buyer who was happy to take my place. With a contract, I suppose he could've sued me? As with Steelman, the situation wasn't ideal, but everyone walked away just fine, with no lawyers involved. And when the time comes, I'll be back.

[crankles]

Originally Posted by firerescuefin

I like to see people put there demons behind them and I hope it happens, but some credibility needs to be reestablished.

How do you know he hasn't already done that? Did he say he wasn't honoring those folks pricing or their place in the queue? Did you talk with Brent or those customers? I thought not.

[firerescuefin]

Originally Posted by crankles

How do you know he hasn't already done that? Did he say he wasn't honoring those folks pricing or their place in the queue? Did you talk with Brent or those customers? I thought not.

Credibility can be lost in an instant...and takes a long time to re-establish. He has written his own history, not me. What I listed as past performance was fact...not opinion.

"Thought not".......Grow up.

[Fixed]

whatever he has one of the best names in cycling
cheers imho

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

all the things you described could be easily addressed in a contract.

I guess my point is that we're talking bicycle frames here, not something complicated or overly expensive. As I said, a contract is only as good as someone's willingness to enforce it.

If a framebuilder returns your deposit, is it really worthwhile to hire a lawyer to go after the guy for breach of implied contract? Even if the builder doesn't return the deposit, I expect the time/money one devotes to it won't ever be recovered.

If a customer forfeits their $500 deposit and walks, do many framebuilders think it's a good investment of their time/money to hire a lawyer to go get the rest, when the frame is still in their possession?

For me, life is too short to burdern simple transactions with excessive precautions. If a builder chooses to do this, then I've picked the wrong one. If I ask for a contract, then I expect an established builder might tell me to go find another.

In my view, these aren't complicated transactions and inserting lawyers will make them exactly that. I'm speaking for myself, of course.

[firerescuefin]

Originally Posted by Fixed

whatever he has one of the best names in cycling
cheers imho

So did Goodrich and Taylor...that ship has sailed.

Fixed..I have no axe to grind. You can't fall off the face of the map...call it quits, and then have a sudden change of heart and expect that everyone wants to hand you there money and wait for a bike that get here....when exactly.

just sayin.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by firerescuefin

Credibility can be lost in an instant...and takes a long time to re-establish. He has written his own history, not me. What I listed as past performance was fact...not opinion.

"Thought not".......Grow up.

The fact is, he returned his deposits. Credibility, honesty and integrity appears to be intact.

[Fixed]

Originally Posted by firerescuefin

So did Goodrich and Taylor...that ship has sailed.

Fixed..I have no axe to grind. You can't fall off the face of the map...call it quits, and then have a sudden change of heart and expect that everyone wants to hand you there money and wait for a bike that get here....when exactly.

just sayin.

i just said his name is cool i have seen his adds in velonews over many years
i always like his logo design too kind of a mystic feel to it
steelman that is cool
next i like strong that is cool too
then naked that is cool too .... etc .
cheers it is all cool with me

[firerescuefin]

He told people fictional dates and the bikes were never built...refused to return phone calls (message box filled)...refused to return e-mails...people showed up at his door and he wouldn't answer it...what exactly am I missing here.

I wish him well. A couple of years, it may all be behind them, but given the list of guys that can answer phones, e-mails, and get me my bike on time....+ build a world class ride...I would not be an early adopter of the New Steelman.

[e-RICHIE]

Re Brent and this thread - were any of you in the queue, or have skin in the game?
Or are your opinions based on this simply being a popular type of thread that relates
to something you know about from a distance but have no real connection to? Who
here is directly affected by this?



.

[Joachim]

Last time I looked we were allowed to discuss anything cycling related and give our opinions. I can also have an opinion about the business practices of Johnson and Johnson without being a stockholder.

[dsimon]

He cam through with Mine it was only a month late but I didnt care do to the fact that I was in transition/moving. and everytime I called to check up on my bike he was happy to answer my questions.

[rugbysecondrow]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

Re Brent and this thread - were any of you in the queue, or have skin in the game?
Or are your opinions based on this simply being a popular type of thread that relates
to something you know about from a distance but have no real connection to? Who
here is directly affected by this?



.

As potential customers, there is quite a bit of validity in other peoples opinions.

I don't think there is a need to kick a man when he is down, but we also don't operate in a vaccum do we? Our actions, even when justified or necesary, have consequences. For Steelman, one of those might be customers moving on to a guy who might be viewed as more stable. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Not all builders are a good fit for customers and vice versa.

[firerescuefin]

[QUOTE=e-RICHIE]Re Brent and this thread - were any of you in the queue, or have skin in the game?
Or are your opinions based on this simply being a popular type of thread that relates
to something you know about from a distance but have no real connection to? Who
here is directly affected by this?.[/QUOTE

I have no skin in the game...but am curious how this is relevant to the conversation taking place. I don't see a bunch of mudslinging going on...and thoughts the facts were pretty well established...and that the conversation has been pretty civilized.