Rapha closes North American office

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by mickey.d

The Waltons force any brand they do business with to open an office in Bentonville.
Fun fact! 100 years ago the most millionaires per capita were in a small WV county where coal executives lived. Now it’s Benton County, AR.

You just making stuff up.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by mickey.d

The Waltons force any brand they do business with to open an office in Bentonville.
Fun fact! 100 years ago the most millionaires per capita were in a small WV county where coal executives lived. Now it’s Benton County, AR.

A million ain't what it used to be. But I bet it goes a lot further in Arkansas.

[wc1934]

Wonder how soon before REI starts their Rapha sale.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by .RJ

are the clubhouses staying open?

for me its been a shame that a lot of great products were redesigned and become worse for it - but Rapha has certainly forced other brands to step up their game.

AFAIK none of the clubhouses are closing, but of course that could change. Here in Los Angeles they just renewed their lease, despite the fact that the local retail environment has changed a lot and not for the better (Patagonia relocated, REI just closed, etc.) -- I know that's hardly news. They have tended to choose fairly high-rent locations, and I think that when lease renewals are coming up they take a hard look at the ROI equation. I was told, second hand, that this was the dynamic that led them to close Sydney a few years ago despite a strong local membership.

I too have been disappointed with a lot of the design work over the last couple of years, but the recent releases point to a return to their design roots. But I doubt that classic wool blend jerseys are a prescription for the growth they want.

Originally Posted by duff_duffy

My Facebook feed this morning had a link to big sale by them. Too good to be true, led to a scam site. Wonder how many people will see this story and think they are just getting a good deal and get ripped off.

I saw a similar ad on Instagram a while ago, link led to an obvious scam site (domain was something like raphadesign.life, had cribbed a bunch of content from rapha.cc). I reported the ad as a scam and a few days later Instagram rejected my complaint. Obviously they care more about the ad dollars than about their customers getting scammed. Again, not news.

[Butch]

The thing that gets me is the price the Waltons paid for Rapha, $260,000,000 for a company doing ~$100,000,000 a year max. When the sale was made the price was some huge multiple of EBITDA.

As with so many companies in this industry, a buyer, from outside the bike industry, comes in and overestimates what a niche brand is worth and how much it can grow.

Is it just me but after Simon sold it there seemed to be constant sales to the point where I remember people saying they would "just wait till it goes on sale".

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by Butch

The thing that gets me is the price the Waltons paid for Rapha, $260,000,000 for a company doing ~$100,000,000 a year max. When the sale was made the price was some huge multiple of EBITDA.

As with so many companies in this industry, a buyer, from outside the bike industry, comes in and overestimates what a niche brand is worth and how much it can grow.

Is it just me but after Simon sold it there seemed to be constant sales to the point where I remember people saying they would "just wait till it goes on sale".

The heart wants what it wants ... and if it is a billionaire heart, well, price what it wants accordingly.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Butch

The thing that gets me is the price the Waltons paid for Rapha, $260,000,000 for a company doing ~$100,000,000 a year max. When the sale was made the price was some huge multiple of EBITDA.

As with so many companies in this industry, a buyer, from outside the bike industry, comes in and overestimates what a niche brand is worth and how much it can grow.

Is it just me but after Simon sold it there seemed to be constant sales to the point where I remember people saying they would "just wait till it goes on sale".

And here I am in software and that wouldn’t be that great of an exit. The last acquisition I went through we made similar revenue and got bought for more than double what Rapha did. Our margins were probably more than 10x theirs though and we kept growing after the acquisition. The whole thing could just be a fun play money diversion for the Waltons though and they don’t care. We buy some clothes and a new bike, N+1 for them means they buy the clothing company and bike company so they can tell them to make whatever they want.

Does Rapha stuff last forever and ever like Assos? I still haven’t tried Rapha but the funny thing with some of these clothes that are exceptionally well made is they get less repeat business than stuff that’s just a little less expensive but lasts 1/4 as long. With bibs I’ve had an awful lot of them that cost 80% of what Assos cost but last 1/4-1/2 as long. Is Rapha like that?

I don’t know where I could even try on their jerseys these days but jerseys are the thing these days that annoys me. Quality seems way down and a lot of brands have biased fit towards people with more weight. I end up being stuck between race fit and regular fit. Race fit only works if I get really skinny. Regular fit is too loose in the chest and gut when I’m out of shape and everywhere when I’m in shape.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by benb

Does Rapha stuff last forever and ever like Assos? I still haven’t tried Rapha but the funny thing with some of these clothes that are exceptionally well made is they get less repeat business than stuff that’s just a little less expensive but lasts 1/4 as long.

Their classic/merino stuff in the past does seem to last forever. I have bibs and long sleeve jerseys and base layers that are at least 10 years old and they're fine.

I tried some of the 'core' products and send them back without even trying them on, same with the leg/arm warmers they redesigned.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Their classic/merino stuff in the past does seem to last forever. I have bibs and long sleeve jerseys and base layers that are at least 10 years old and they're fine.

I tried some of the 'core' products and send them back without even trying them on, same with the leg/arm warmers they redesigned.

I only use rapha jerseys and still do because I got free classic pro lightweight jerseys many years ago that lasted forever, fit perfect and performed great. I only use the higher end models and never tried core. Even the very ultralight summer jersey with mesh lasts a very long time.

Assos bibs have consistently disappointed me ever since my fantastic experience with s5 UNO. 3 pairs lasted me a ton of mileage and only were retired because the material became see through after a decade or so.

Every pair since from their highest to mid range cost has failed usually after a few years. One cost me 230 not long ago and has delaminated across the belly exposing the tension band or whatever it’s called under the fabric.

I really want to find another brand bibs that fit and perform the same but still haven’t so deal with the shoddy quality. Thankfully I have a talented SO at home and she patches them up to extend.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

I really want to find another brand bibs that fit and perform the same but still haven’t so deal with the shoddy quality. Thankfully I have a talented SO at home and she patches them up to extend.

I've gone the other way and bought a pile from the black bibs. They're cheap, they're good enough, and so far they're holding up as well as anything, and I dont care if they get torn up.

I'll +1 your comment on the summer jerseys too, they're fantastic. I really liked the flyweight line but it fell apart after a summer of use and washing.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by benb

Does Rapha stuff last forever and ever like Assos? I still haven’t tried Rapha but the funny thing with some of these clothes that are exceptionally well made is they get less repeat business than stuff that’s just a little less expensive but lasts 1/4 as long. With bibs I’ve had an awful lot of them that cost 80% of what Assos cost but last 1/4-1/2 as long. Is Rapha like that?

I have a lot of Rapha kit, all Pro Team, Brevet, or Classic (I wouldn't touch the Core products). IME the jerseys last very well (especially, as noted in the thread, the merino blend ones). My only complaint is that one jersey lost its stretch in the back so the pockets sag (I use it anyway).

The bibs of the previous decade lasted forever but the more recent ones tend to fail after 3-4 years of once a week use (roughly). In general the failures fall into two categories: the stitching of the pad unravels a little or the pad begins to detach internally. The first category is by far more common and, fortunately, is easily remedied by someone with even mediocre tailoring skills.

That said, in every instance of their bibs failing, I have sent Rapha a repair request and they say "we can't repair that, here's a voucher for 40% of the original cost." In contrast, the one pair of MAAP bibs I had got quite thin and lost their compression after several years and MAAP said (in effect) "too bad, they're old."

Originally Posted by benb

I don’t know where I could even try on their jerseys these days

They've recently struck a wholesale deal with Trek (among other LBSs), so if you have a Trek store in the vicinity you might check with them. I know a bunch of stores here have begun to offer their stuff (which is a huge PITA for the Rapha store since people come to them for returns and they have to say "sorry."

[avalonracing]

I'm a big fan of Rapha's "Core" line. They are cut a bit like cycling and racing jerseys were about twenty years ago. Unlike current cycling kits, they don't have sleeves that go to your elbows and no collars with wide neck openings.
I really recommend trying the Core line if you are looking for a great fit and don't want to look like you're trying to be a 130lb Euro-pro.

[Nomadmax]

USA Cycling is in Boulder as far as I know. Did that change?

Originally Posted by mickey.d

I would assume the staff are relieved that they no longer have to live in the World Capital of Mountainbiking...

USACycling and Vittoria both lost some of their most experienced employees due to forced relocation to Bentonville over the last two years.

[duff_duffy]

My Facebook feed this morning had a link to big sale by them. Too good to be true, led to a scam site. Wonder how many people will see this story and think they are just getting a good deal and get ripped off.

[mickey.d]

Originally Posted by Nomadmax

USA Cycling is in Boulder as far as I know. Did that change?

Colorado Springs- but after the Waltons installed the same person who helped them buy Rapha as the head of USAcycling they created a satellite office in Bentonville.

They have forced collegiate and jr cycling people and the Technical Director to move there. As you can imagine, people involved with collegiate cycling by and large don’t support the insane conservative culture war laboratory that is Arkansas. Now, being willing to live in Bentonville is a crucial test to whether or not you can continue advocating for american cycling. Vittoria lost their OEM sales manager for the same reason- they don’t want to risk raising their kids in Arkansas.