The TdF Bikes...Interesting Thoughts on Fit, Design and Marketing

[RedRider]

This was posted by Happy Freedman. He is a NYC based bicycle fitter, coach and former racer. He does not sell bicycles... Your thoughts???

The Tour de France is over withdrawal starts tomorrow. Time for the recap. Great racing amazing performances and tons of crashes. While the crashes I have a theory. When I first started racing all the pros had bike built for them. Basically everyone got a custom frame or two or three or four. Bicycles were built for specific tasks some for Hillclimb's some for long road stages and others for time trials. It was built out of steel and later titanium teams and special workshops just to provide the pros they sponsored special bikes. Today's bikes are carbon fiber basically the same bike in the shop has the same geometry is the pros Road in tour. This means the Pro bike racer is not getting the ideal fit but the marketing department is getting the ideal bike we don't very seat angles or top tube lengths to compensate for different torsos and flexibility . the only fit tools you have making the rider comfortable and efficient on the bike are by changing stem length , stack height and a bar width and drop seatpost and saddles as well as . Gone are the days when we built the bike around the body and riding style of the cyclist.
Today's pros are highly skilled .I think we should provide them with the best possible equipment to conduct races safely. A poorly fitting bike does not help the bike handling skills of the Cyclist riding it. Here I go again pontificating about bikefit.
But I am a bike fitter

[tv_vt]

Well,... I think that could use some editing so it would make more sense, for starters.

But general thesis being that store-bought frames don't work for the pros? Not sure about that. But some aspects could be playing a role. Such as trail and how quick the frames steer. (I wonder if slower steering frames would be better.)

What about braking with carbon rims, especially in wet conditions?

And is it really fact that there are more crashes now? Would like to see some hard data to back that up. One Tour is not enough to draw any conclusions. And it's only one race in the season.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

Well,... I think that could use some editing so it would make more sense, for starters.

But general thesis being that store-bought frames don't work for the pros? Not sure about that. But some aspects could be playing a role. Such as trail and how quick the frames steer. (I wonder if slower steering frames would be better.)

What about braking with carbon rims, especially in wet conditions?

And is it really fact that there are more crashes now? Would like to see some hard data to back that up. One Tour is not enough to draw any conclusions. And it's only one race in the season.

+1. Carbon rims in the rain are an actual problem. But as a bike fitter, he doesn't have much to say about that. So he has to talk his own book.

Also, don't forget that Nibali rode Hautacam slower than Armstrong and Riis, and many others from previous tours. Further evidence that their climbing positions were more dialed in than Nibali's.

[chengher87]

I know Sagan's Cannondale is custom fitted to his body. I believe his frame is fairly asymmetric (even by Cannondale standards and from what I've read not mass produced). I assume the "stars" get theirs and the rest make do.

[fogrider]

Originally Posted by chengher87

I know Sagan's Cannondale is custom fitted to his body. I believe his frame is fairly asymmetric (even by Cannondale standards and from what I've read not mass produced). I assume the "stars" get theirs and the rest make do.

the top riders get custom bikes built by builders, they use the same basic materials but they are built for the rider by a builder and not a factory worker in Asia. look at Cav's bike, pretty sure you can't find that at the dealer. the domestique's bikes are another story. and yes, even pros crash when going hard and fast with 50 close friend on roads they're not familiar with. it's crazy that Contador crashed because he hit a pothole...I'm I the only one that thinks someone should have at least patched that?

[sante pollastri]

Originally Posted by fogrider

the top riders get custom bikes built by builders, they use the same basic materials but they are built for the rider by a builder and not a factory worker in Asia. look at Cav's bike, pretty sure you can't find that at the dealer. the domestique's bikes are another story. and yes, even pros crash when going hard and fast with 50 close friend on roads they're not familiar with. it's crazy that Contador crashed because he hit a pothole...I'm I the only one that thinks someone should have at least patched that?

No,you are wrong,it's made in Asia,and not by a phantom framebuilder.
Only big factories can do hi tech carbon frames.

[fogrider]

Originally Posted by sante pollastri

No,you are wrong,it's made in Asia,and not by a phantom framebuilder.
Only big factories can do hi tech carbon frames.

tell that to Calfee, Crumpton, LandShark, and Parlee just to name a few. You seem to think there is something magical that happens in big factories? a frame is still made out of sheets of carbon fibers by hand inject epoxy, put into a mold and baked at 400 degrees. in a big factory in asia, there are lots of people in an assembly line doing this putting out lots of bikes in stock sizes. in the US, builders like the ones I mentioned will build it to custom sizes one at a time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSUKM3bvcyk

[sante pollastri]

Very stupid article written by a nostalgic of the steel era.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by RedRider

A poorly fitting bike does not help the bike handling skills of the Cyclist riding it.[/I]

Fit may be optimized by a custom build, but lack of a custom build certainly does not equate to a 'poorly fitting' bike - especially at the pro team level.

[enr1co]

With his introductory sentences, is he correlating the increased level of crashes with inferior bike fit? To this, my thoughts are that most pros are highly skilled handlers and that they would would not consider the fitment on their bike (whether factory stock or custom) being a factor with crashes.

With regards to general fit, perhaps his thoughts, concerns could be best addressed with discussion with the guys who fit the pros on the sponsors bikes.

[fiamme red]

Question about his assumption: are there actually more crashes now than 20 or 30 years ago?

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

Question about his assumption: are there actually more crashes now than 20 or 30 years ago?

No, but the number of teams allowed in the tour HAS been raised over the years. the roads of the tour are more crowded.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

No, but the number of teams allowed in the tour HAS been raised over the years. the roads of the tour are more crowded.

Nope. There were more teams and riders in the tour 25 years ago.

The difference is in the desperation to get on tv. The pace is fast from the gun and everyone is trying to ride at the front at the same time. Recipe for crashes.

[beeatnik]

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...tml#post408667

According to the opinion of Mr Sachs:

I think many of the positions in the pro peloton are atrocious. There's way too much weight too far ahead of the central movement. Most cats have their hands way too low in space to negotiate very much at high speeds. And I think the frame styles, being as small as they are, exacerbate many of the handling problems. Oh, and a lot of the industrial made bicycles have front centers that seem too short, and matching rears as well. That last part is an observation, not an opinion based on measuring a cross section of bicycles atmo.

[Gummee]

Personally, I think the OP and Sachs are on to something.

Pros seem to be riding smaller and smaller frame sizes and longer and longer stems to compensate.

Add to that the 'slam the stem' ethos of bike fit and you've got problems brewing.

I've ridden a 135mm stem. Didn't like it. (still have that stem. Can't seem to sell it!)

I don't bend like that any more. Middle age done did me in

M