Sometimes I hate being called a cyclist.

[bigbill]

The local group rides meets across the street from my house. Pure dumb luck that I bought this house right in the middle of the local hotbed of cycling. The negative is that the local group rides like idiots, running stop signs, red lights, riding around cars at intersections, and racing through neighborhoods. They race all the way back to the start. One of the most dangerous things they do is to take the LEFT lane on a 60 mph four lane highway just so they can swing into a turn lane and be the first one back to the neighborhood. The highway has a great 8' shoulder that is always clean and I've never had a problem getting over as long as I waited for a gap.

When I ride with them, I leave early and ride out to the edge of town on my own and do the rural sections with them and then sit up when we get back into town. One guy has a 15# dumbbell zip-tied into a water bottle cage so he can get a better workout. Just waiting for that thing to come out and bounce through the pack.

[Climb01742]

[QUOTE=zap;I prefer having police focus their efforts on more important matters.[/QUOTE]

Part of me agrees but part of me remembers when Rudy Giuliani focused some of the NYPD on quality of life issues, life in the city got better. That said, it's hard to know what would keep group riders, or drivers for that matter, from being jerks.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

Part of me agrees but part of me remembers when Rudy Giuliani focused some of the NYPD on quality of life issues, life in the city got better. That said, it's hard to know what would keep group riders, or drivers for that matter, from being jerks.

Getting arrested.

[TRACK]

moral of this story: always wear cycling kits while driving a car (or a truck if youre even more bad@ss)

[Jgrooms]

Originally Posted by Mr Cabletwitch

I think what a few of you guys missed from the original post was that they weren't taking the lane they were taking BOTH lanes.



All I did was beep my horn and I was met with cursing and the middle finger. I got a bit hot headed but I figured it was best to pull over and get out of the car and offer the guy the chance to let me know how he feels than to argue with him while I'm driving. The fact that I was in my cycling clothes and had a bike on my truck I think it home with some riders. Around here this behavior is getting out of hand we have a group of wannabe racers that have ran me off the road already going the opposite direction when I was out on a solo ride. This same group has to constantly move locations because the police will come after them.



I've been talking to some friends in the state legislature and kicking around ideas of possibly requiring larger groups of cyclists to file for a permit so that unorganized rides like this can be stopped.



The other appalling behavior I witnessed was another rider pulling out his cell phone to video me which was fine except when he did this he swerved right in front of me because he couldn't ride in a straight line.

Dude! We get it. You don't like roadies. Can't stand friends & fam associating your cycling with their cycling. Take a deep breath. Enjoy the trails. Maybe just let these scofflaws roll on down the road & go your own way? But seriously stay in your truck....

For the rest, ride the lane (right tire track), stay out of the gutter. Check your six & assert your right to move through an intersection wo a vehicle in your space.

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by bigbill

They race all the way back to the start. One of the most dangerous things they do is to take the LEFT lane on a 60 mph four lane highway just so they can swing into a turn lane and be the first one back to the neighborhood. The highway has a great 8' shoulder that is always clean and I've never had a problem getting over as long as I waited for a gap. .

Having been on both sides of this one: its MUCH easier AND safer to take a lane when you're a pack. Solo? By all means I'll stay much further right

Different behaviors for different situations

M

[maj]

Originally Posted by Jgrooms

Dude! We get it. You don't like roadies. Can't stand friends & fam associating your cycling with their cycling. Take a deep breath. Enjoy the trails. Maybe just let these scofflaws roll on down the road & go your own way? But seriously stay in your truck....

For the rest, ride the lane (right tire track), stay out of the gutter. Check your six & assert your right to move through an intersection wo a vehicle in your space.

You clearly don't get it. In fact, you go a long way to proving the point. Nothing the OP said suggests that he doesn't like road bikers - he's obviously a cyclist himself. In your advice for "the rest," it's all about you - not a word about courtesy, riding single file, or allowing enough space for cars to safely pass. The cartoon in the sixth post says a lot.

I was glad to see this thread topic here. I've been riding for over 40 years and am also embarrassed by the association of being called a "cyclist." Been seeing cyclists lately exhibit numerous acts of douchebaggery - lane blocking and blasting intersections is commonplace. A rider from a group even stopped the other day to relieve his bladder in our neighbors yard in full view - I went out and just stood there watching in disbelief. He just sheepishly said "sorry" and got back on his bike and rode off to his group's laughter.

The worst. I'm on a local fire department and last week, while leaving the station full code (lights and siren) for a call, we were flipped off by a cyclist, in Lance Armstrong costume, because his group had to pause a bit (just like the lowly vehicle traffic) as we left the station. Oooh, those emergency vehicles must've really messed up his Strava run. Unbelievable.

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread.

[shovelhd]

Thank you for your voice of reason Maj. BTW I always pull over for emergency vehicles unless I am riding in a group. It's just too dangerous and unpredictable to expect a bunch of riders with varying abilities to pull over cleanly.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by maj

You clearly don't get it. In fact, you go a long way to proving the point. Nothing the OP said suggests that he doesn't like road bikers - he's obviously a cyclist himself. In your advice for "the rest," it's all about you - not a word about courtesy, riding single file, or allowing enough space for cars to safely pass. The cartoon in the sixth post says a lot.

I was glad to see this thread topic here. I've been riding for over 40 years and am also embarrassed by the association of being called a "cyclist." Been seeing cyclists lately exhibit numerous acts of douchebaggery - lane blocking and blasting intersections is commonplace. A rider from a group even stopped the other day to relieve his bladder in our neighbors yard in full view - I went out and just stood there watching in disbelief. He just sheepishly said "sorry" and got back on his bike and rode off to his group's laughter.

The worst. I'm on a local fire department and last week, while leaving the station full code (lights and siren) for a call, we were flipped off by a cyclist, in Lance Armstrong costume, because his group had to pause a bit (just like the lowly vehicle traffic) as we left the station. Oooh, those emergency vehicles must've really messed up his Strava run. Unbelievable.

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread.

Well said. As I said earlier, we can be our own worst enemies.

[Jgrooms]

Originally Posted by maj

You clearly don't get it. In fact, you go a long way to proving the point. Nothing the OP said suggests that he doesn't like road bikers - he's obviously a cyclist himself. In your advice for "the rest," it's all about you - not a word about courtesy, riding single file, or allowing enough space for cars to safely pass. The cartoon in the sixth post says a lot.

I was glad to see this thread topic here. I've been riding for over 40 years and am also embarrassed by the association of being called a "cyclist." Been seeing cyclists lately exhibit numerous acts of douchebaggery - lane blocking and blasting intersections is commonplace. A rider from a group even stopped the other day to relieve his bladder in our neighbors yard in full view - I went out and just stood there watching in disbelief. He just sheepishly said "sorry" and got back on his bike and rode off to his group's laughter.

The worst. I'm on a local fire department and last week, while leaving the station full code (lights and siren) for a call, we were flipped off by a cyclist, in Lance Armstrong costume, because his group had to pause a bit (just like the lowly vehicle traffic) as we left the station. Oooh, those emergency vehicles must've really messed up his Strava run. Unbelievable.

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread.

Really don't put words in my mouth. Read the op's replys. Issues beyond the first post.

And nowhere do I advocate unsafe riding. The right tire track is the safest place to be. Getting through the intersection as an independent vehicle is the law. 40 yrs you ought to have figured out both.

Carry on with the self loathing, I'm firing up Strava and going for a spin.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

+1

And large group rides often bring out our most annoying, self-centered behavior.

I'm not sure what constitutes a large group ride but every Wednesday our local University team as well as a few local teams and people of various skill levels from fitness riders, cat 5's on up to cat 1's and including some pro's meet up for our Wednesday Worlds ride. On a busy day it's about 40 people and we split into A and B groups. Fortunaty I live out in the country and there really is not a whole lot of traffic and we have been doing it so long that no doubt the locals know about it. We've even had one local call the cops who came by to talk to us and said don't worry it's cool and we are not breaking the law.

Anyway a lot of the guys wear the local University team kits so the locals probably understand to some level. This ride has been going on for 15 years and so I'm now one of the old farts. As part of that honorable title it's my responsibility to 'train' new kids not to be idiots. No crossing the yellow line, when it's safe to do so move over and wave on traffic by and so on. Then it's back to racing. This ride has been an incredible experience for me and for all of us. Not just for learning how to race but to become strong and safe. We all know some one who used to race in these rides who just finished his first TDF!

I'd hate if one person, just one person who doesn't like what he see's, stop this excellent team building and training experience for the future young cyclist who come through my University.

I guess my point is that I am lucky to live in a community of cyclists where there is still a sense of apprenticeship. This is the way it used to be done. When I was a young kid and one of the older riders told me to do something I did it. Period. And today I, among others, are the ones carrying the torch. If some young kid doesn't listen then we make it very clear that they are no longer welcome on the ride. It's this lost tradition of cycling.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

I'm pretty sure I don't hate road riding since I've been doing it for 15+ years, and have 10s of thousands of miles under my belt, but what I'm trying to get at is that racing on open roads just isn't safe. Its not safe for cars its not safe for bikes. We have road races with closed courses for a reason. If you need to go out every week and race your bike against a bunch of other guys to prove who has the bigger !@#$ go right ahead but you should be held to the same standard as an automobile. I can't take my car out and break the law and use the excuse that I'm training for a race. If we want to be treated like a car we should act like a car and be held to the same standards. The reality is roads are built for and paid for my automobiles. To use a bike on a roadway is a privilege one that can be taken away pretty easily should the right people decide (This is not something I want to see happen)

And reddir this is in no way aimed at you. I think policing inside our own ranks and some friendly competition is great but when we risk the lives of others to prove who is faster and disregard safety its just stupid. Roads are for getting from point A to B whether its on a bike or in a car they are not and shouldn't be used for competition unless they are closed down.

[cfox]

Originally Posted by Jgrooms

Really don't put words in my mouth. Read the op's replys. Issues beyond the first post.

And nowhere do I advocate unsafe riding. The right tire track is the safest place to be. Getting through the intersection as an independent vehicle is the law. 40 yrs you ought to have figured out both.

Carry on with the self loathing, I'm firing up Strava and going for a spin.

It's not self loathing when everyone loathes you.

The right tire track is certainly not the safest place for me to ride. I'd have 30 angry drivers stacked up behind me because the first driver wouldn't be able to get around. No thanks. It may be my "right", but that doesn't make it a good idea.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Jgrooms

Dude! We get it. You don't like roadies. Can't stand friends & fam associating your cycling with their cycling. Take a deep breath. Enjoy the trails. Maybe just let these scofflaws roll on down the road & go your own way? But seriously stay in your truck....

For the rest, ride the lane (right tire track), stay out of the gutter. Check your six & assert your right to move through an intersection wo a vehicle in your space.

Errr, I think the 'don't getting' part is you not..not me, not 'we'.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by redir

I'm not sure what constitutes a large group ride but every Wednesday our local University team as well as a few local teams and people of various skill levels from fitness riders, cat 5's on up to cat 1's and including some pro's meet up for our Wednesday Worlds ride. On a busy day it's about 40 people and we split into A and B groups. Fortunaty I live out in the country and there really is not a whole lot of traffic and we have been doing it so long that no doubt the locals know about it. We've even had one local call the cops who came by to talk to us and said don't worry it's cool and we are not breaking the law.

Anyway a lot of the guys wear the local University team kits so the locals probably understand to some level. This ride has been going on for 15 years and so I'm now one of the old farts. As part of that honorable title it's my responsibility to 'train' new kids not to be idiots. No crossing the yellow line, when it's safe to do so move over and wave on traffic by and so on. Then it's back to racing. This ride has been an incredible experience for me and for all of us. Not just for learning how to race but to become strong and safe. We all know some one who used to race in these rides who just finished his first TDF!

I'd hate if one person, just one person who doesn't like what he see's, stop this excellent team building and training experience for the future young cyclist who come through my University.

I guess my point is that I am lucky to live in a community of cyclists where there is still a sense of apprenticeship. This is the way it used to be done. When I was a young kid and one of the older riders told me to do something I did it. Period. And today I, among others, are the ones carrying the torch. If some young kid doesn't listen then we make it very clear that they are no longer welcome on the ride. It's this lost tradition of cycling.

You make a very valid and fair point. I'll be the first to say that this isn't a simple issue with a single, simple answer.

I guess for me it comes down to balancing a common good. The greatest common good for the most people, riders and drivers, is what? How can we all share the road so we can ride safely and cars can reasonably get where they're going?

The answer shouldn't fall disproportionately on group rides but I do believe, broadly, that a lot of ill will is created by large groups. Is there a fair solution that helps all riders, because the more pissed off drivers there are, the more endangered we all are.