OT: Career Shift - Engineering

[KeithNorCal]

Lots of good comments already. Here's my CV. I have a BSEE, worked as a software engineer for 17 years, moved into finance for a decade or so, bought a restaurant and worked 80-100 hours per week for 4 years while simultaneously getting my MBA, restaurant burned down, insurance company is trying to screw us, still have a small financial advisory practice.

Don't do anything just for money. The conventional wisdom is "do what you love and the money will follow." The truth is that it's difficult to do something you don't love and be happy in the long term. Another truth is that if you do something you love, the money doesn't always follow. There are plenty of smart, honest, hardworking people who pursue their passions and don't succeed financially. But if they enjoy what they do, then kudos for them regardless.

A true "engineering" position will generally require a bachelor's, if not a master's. I've known some brilliant people who became very senior level managers at huge companies (e.g., Apple, Adobe) without even having a bachelor's degree. Those people are truly brilliant and the exception to the rule. Don't expect that kind of success, even with a degree.

Lastly, follow your heart. Take the advice that makes sense to you, and ignore the rest. None of us have a lock on wisdom.

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by Louis

+1

"Regular" programming (e.g. C, C++, Fortran) if you want to work for "old-tech" companies or companies that do data crunching, and web-related languages (e.g. Java) if you want to work for "new-tech" companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ming_languages

I know coders are in demand, but I would feel leery of an occupation that can be "internetted" from overseas. RF is where I think I would try to break into

[ojingoh]

I'd invest some time talking to people who love what they do and can keep humble and hardworking at it before I got more education. Talk to more than a few engineers, programmers, managers, entrepreneurs, salespersons.

I presume you're young enough where gaining a year of experience in something and going to find something more interesting is not going to hurt your professionally. I think being the outsider looking in is a privileged position- take your time and ask good questions.

[matthewhelmuth]

Wow! Thanks everyone for the abundant responses. i was a little overwhelmed by the diversity of responses, but I'll offer some reflections, add some specifics about my background and pseudo-plan, and go from there.

One of my friends in the narrow pool of engineering-type friends I have noted in an early conversation that there would be the camp of people who will say I need a degree no matter what, and there would be a camp who said there are work-arounds to a degree. It was interesting to watch that play out in this thread.

I particularly appreciated the note regarding informational interviewing. That's what I've been doing with acquaintances, a few of whom have been very generous in connecting me to their own professional networks. I'll be making a move to San Diego soon, and so abandoning some of that networking advantage, but I suspect I'll be able to build it back up through family and friends there.

A few specific responses:

Originally Posted by slidey

I would like you, if you wish, to give me a better idea of what context you're using to declare the below statement about having an aptitude in mathematics. In short, engineering maths is per my experience only superficially to do with numbers, a lot more to do with symbols/theorems.

As for "getting into the field without a degree", my first reaction is utter skepticism. However, feel free to disambiguate what you mean by "getting into the field".

After reading through the responses here, I feel silly saying it, but I excelled in mathematics in high school. I never got into calculus because I made a shift toward the humanities, but I'm at a point where I've realized the humanities can't very well support a family.

To disambiguate my plan I'll respond to another post.

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

U=I think it is the right move to get your foot in the door with a good company who will let you do some work and pay to earn a higher degree. all the "big" engineering firms will hire draftsman (or whatever they call them) to do drawings, which is not a degreed job. you will need some training in mechanical design and CAD. it's a good entry level position and can get you a feel for working with an engineering/design team, and potentially allow you to pursue a higher education while you work.

where do you live, and what do you actually want to do? if you've got the right attitude and are flexible, anything is possible.

My plan to this point has been to teach myself Altium and do PCB layout. I was thinking to buy a computer, license the program, and take a few electronics courses at a community college to develop a baseline understanding. Simultaneously I'd plan to work through a few high quality textbooks at home in mathematics and introductory electronics.

My "realistic" plan to have going at the same time is to apply to my local electrical apprenticeship program. The reason I'd work on the home-training stuff is that the apprenticeship application process is very drawn out and there's a chance that the PCB layout route could result in a marketable skill in a shorter time period.

As I noted before, we're moving to San Diego mid November, and I'm hoping to build networks through my in-laws' church and through group rides.

I'll have time for all of this because we're biting the bullet and moving in with the in-laws for a time. I'll have about 9 months to either get another dead-end job and wait for the apprenticeship thing to pull through, or sit at a computer at home and try to develop a skill that interests me and might lead somewhere.

There's the long version of my thinking. Thanks again for all the responses!

[TunaAndBikes]

I'm a Mech Eng intern right now, finishing my B.eng soon.
I've heard a lot of my friend say that their degree isn't very useful. However, the 4 year of school learns to think and hae an edge regarding what you do as opposed to doing resolving Navier-Stokes every week (hahaha!).
As so many other say; engineering is so vast you can do pretty much any field.

I've been in the market recently and from what i've lived, without having any education or valuable experience it's hard to get taken seriously.

PM me if you have any questions!

Edit: I also agree that i often think that if i did have to do it again i would go into computer science. Truth is in most tech firms theres a mech eng to suplly into heat dissipation/smd/fans and other mechanical parts. I dont regret my choice as i couldnt see myself in anything else than mech eng. You know yourself best and you're still young. Think about it hard and commit to whatever your choice is.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by matthewhelmuth

...I have noted in an early conversation that there would be the camp of people who will say I need a degree no matter what, and there would be a camp who said there are work-arounds to a degree.

I don't think you'll necessarily need a degree to get in the door somewhere, but you'll very likely come in at a higher level, have better understanding of the field and aptitude for tackling more difficult and diverse problems, and have better advancement opportunities with the degree. No PE without a degree. In many places, you might not even make the short list without a degree. So, something to think about...

I can't say that I'm entirely clear on what you're looking for, however: on one hand, you're looking to 'get into [the engineering] field without holding a degree', and on the other, sounds like you're looking to get into a journeyman electrician program. Both sound like good pursuits, but I think you'll probably need to come to some kind of decision and set a course....

GL

[humboldt]

I'm a licensed Civil Engineer and I love it. I mostly work on the construction side, designing and building wastewater and water treatment plants.

I think the idea of getting into drafting is a good one. I do my own drafting for small projects but pay a drafter to assist on the larger projects. She charges $60/hr but is an independent contractor so pays her own insurance, rent, health care, etc. So probably makes around $20-25 per hour which is about what I'd pay a drafter if we had one on staff. But it's a great way to get started in the industry.

[arazate]

My Dad is an ME and my brother is a CE. My undergrad was international business and economics, with and MBA in International Business; I started off in the railroad/metro business through an internship. Surrounded by EE's and ME's; it rubbed off on me.

Moved into aviation, and now the oil and gas business. Deal with engineers on on a daily business; I'm the only non-engineer. I bring to the table business development and international sales; also well versed in thermodynamics and heat transfer.

Sales and supply chain are ways of getting into the engineering field. Once you are in, you can work on 'expanding' your horizons.

[marciero]

As a mathematics professor my background includes research in mathematics of signal processing (as a branch of electrical engineering) and work with professional engineers-mostly DOD contractors, though that was a long time ago. I've also taught ugrad engineering math, and am currently developing a data science BS degree program. Here are some thoughts based on my investigations and discussions with employers, mostly around data science.

The technology employers I've spoken with in fact largely want some of the same competencies that a liberal arts education is designed to provide-critical thinking is mentioned over and over. Also problem solving. Yes, those are nebulous terms, but describe the ability to think through and apprehend an entire problem, bring to bear different or creative approaches, recognize where additional expertise is needed, etc. That said, to get foot in the door you would need some basic computing skills like "language-agnostic" algorithm design, and some basic coding. The idea is that learning the syntax and functionality of different languages is not a big deal if you know how languages work and can think logically. Many employees use frameworks, systems, or languages that they expect to have to train a new employee to use anyway.

So you need not discount your humanities background if you go in a data analytics direction, especially since it is used increasingly in all fields. Some basic competencies like Excel and SQL would open up some possibilities I would think. Going the engineering route would be very different.

"Coding" is increasingly becoming more of a commodity in that lots of employers are outsourcing that, often overseas. That said, there are good jobs available for those with ability to code, along with some of the above skills.

Examples of specific languages that go a long way in data science are Python, SQL, R; the latter for statistics, It's possible to get competencies with these in "MOOC" type online courses, such as those from Coursera, often free or at very low cost. The attrition rates for these courses are very high though. The vast majority of students dont complete them.

There are also some intensive "boot camp"-type programs, either on-site or blended online. The one below is from a reputable company and appears to be quite good. It is expensive ($14,000 for 12 weeks). You would be much more likely to succeed with such a program if you have some mathematics and/or computer science background, and/or have very strong math aptitude and are very motivated.
https://generalassemb.ly/education/d...ence-immersive

I agree that talking to others, networking, and spending time to research jobs and careers is a good idea. Good luck with your search!