Power chart...this is just depressing

[macaroon]

Some Pro stats. Chris Anker Sørensen pushing 6.8W/Kg for five minutes AFTER racing for 200Km (and racing 200Km every day for 2 weeks before that)

https://cyclingtips.com/2009/07/just...re-these-guys/

[hida yanra]

Originally Posted by echappist

i believe the following is pertinent

YOU BEAUTY! thanks for posting it, saved me the trouble

Originally Posted by shovelhd

Take whatever you want from that chart. It's a very broad brush over a very complex subject. The author himself regrets putting the left column on it, precisely because of threads like these.

indeed, the chart doesn't really tell you much, other than the vaguest notions that might be helpful in considering a tactical approach to racing. The rest of it? meh, doesn't really matter.

For example - my numbers in the 5second column and 20' were always rather low, yet I was a pretty successful track racer - a bit odd, eh?

well, I noticed that my 5' values were (comparatively) quite high, and that sent me down the path of figuring out "what do you have to do to win a race with 4-5' efforts?"
It isn't kilo attacks (trying to Kilo a field of track racers is a REAL painful proposition), it isn't mass sprints, but neither is it attacks from 10k out.

"dance with them as brung you" is a pretty reasonable approach for bike racers trying to sort out how to translate their physiological profiles into wins - and I personally know several people in this thread have found success matching those things up.

It's only one piece of the puzzle - someone w/ a 20w/kg sprint but who is terrified of contact & proximity *could* be a good sprinter, but not without fixing some skill gaps.

Also, when and where those values are derived matter a lot. Plenty of WT sprints are won w/ 1500watt sprints. After 4h of racing, hills, and the completely 10k leading to the sprint, 5" sprint values are comparatively low in terms of raw numbers, but intensity over the previous 4 hours or previous 10 minutes might be astronomical. YMMV

[echappist]

Originally Posted by hida yanra

YOU BEAUTY! thanks for posting it, saved me the trouble

thanks; hope you are well. btw, that chart may have taken me quite a few hours to track down back when i found it a few years ago

indeed, the chart doesn't really tell you much, other than the vaguest notions that might be helpful in considering a tactical approach to racing. The rest of it? meh, doesn't really matter.

For example - my numbers in the 5second column and 20' were always rather low, yet I was a pretty successful track racer - a bit odd, eh?

well, I noticed that my 5' values were (comparatively) quite high, and that sent me down the path of figuring out "what do you have to do to win a race with 4-5' efforts?"
It isn't kilo attacks (trying to Kilo a field of track racers is a REAL painful proposition), it isn't mass sprints, but neither is it attacks from 10k out.

"dance with them as brung you" is a pretty reasonable approach for bike racers trying to sort out how to translate their physiological profiles into wins - and I personally know several people in this thread have found success matching those things up.

It's only one piece of the puzzle - someone w/ a 20w/kg sprint but who is terrified of contact & proximity *could* be a good sprinter, but not without fixing some skill gaps.

or lose some sense of self-preservation

Also, when and where those values are derived matter a lot. Plenty of WT sprints are won w/ 1500watt sprints. After 4h of racing, hills, and the completely 10k leading to the sprint, 5" sprint values are comparatively low in terms of raw numbers, but intensity over the previous 4 hours or previous 10 minutes might be astronomical. YMMV

that's what people don't appreciate. last 3km of a sprint stage is a VO2max effort

[benb]

The chart mostly works for me. I'm 39, I was a lot younger when I dabbled in racing, but I don't really think I'm much slower then when I was in my 20s, I was much more consistent last year then I usually was in my 20s. I can tell my recovery sucks now compared to then, but I overtrained like crazy back then.

Anyway I used a PM a pretty high % of the time last year and looking back at a years worth of data the values in that table make sense to me based on how I raced back when.

Power didn't really ever matter for me.. I didn't like racing that much, got scared of getting hurt after a few close calls, and wasn't that great from a tactical standing. I was inconsistent and usually couldn't work things out to be in good shape and fresh for a race I cared about. I also hated driving my car to races and didn't really enjoy the scene in general so lots more power wouldn't have really helped much.

[hida yanra]

Originally Posted by echappist

thanks; hope all is well,
<snip>
that's what people don't appreciate. last 3km of a sprint stage is a VO2max effort

but I'm rock climbing these days - talk about a sport where power/weight matters 5x as much as in cycling? I found it, problem is, I'm way heavier than when I was racing - oops.

more On Topic -
did you see that video I posted on the 33 a few years ago w/ a lead out guy's (maybe Hendo)'s live wattage overlaid on the broadcast video feed when he tried to kilo the field?
It just depressing, but deeply instructive to anyone thinking about the sprint and not the bit that leads up to it.

also, I LOVE that two of the three racers I think of when I talk about winning with a less traditional power curve were already in this thread. (Now where's Ex when ya need him)

[maxn]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

I In fact, in the whole of France, I don't think there is a climb longer than 5km that is over 10% avg.... and it's a big country with a lot of Alps.

Off topic, but I also don't know of any >10%, but I know of a lot that are = 10% (or close to it). To start, there are a couple that are <5 km from me:

https://www.cols-cyclisme.com/chartr...reppe-c502.htm
and
https://www.strava.com/segments/642182

and a few a bit further afield

https://www.strava.com/segments/2501964
https://www.strava.com/segments/1413639
https://www.strava.com/segments/1084413
https://www.strava.com/segments/676271
https://www.strava.com/segments/3848598

and there are a host of others coming in a little shy
(https://www.strava.com/segments/1084413)

[echappist]

Originally Posted by hida yanra

eh, life's complicated - as of recently not married anymore, but that's a good thing.
No desire to race anymore, but that may shift back with the other recent changes.

but I'm rock climbing these days - talk about a sport where power/weight matters 5x as much as in cycling? I found it, problem is, I'm way heavier than when I was racing - oops.

more On Topic -
did you see that video I posted on the 33 a few years ago w/ a lead out guy's (maybe Hendo)'s live wattage overlaid on the broadcast video feed when he tried to kilo the field?
It just depressing, but deeply instructive to anyone thinking about the sprint and not the bit that leads up to it.

i'm sorry to hear that. hope things improve

also, I LOVE that two of the three racers I think of when I talk about winning with a less traditional power curve were already in this thread. (Now where's Ex when ya need him)

who's the third racer?

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by echappist

the last 3km of a sprint stage is a VO2max effort

The entire 50km of a PRT criterium is an VO2Max effort.