Knee pain from painful saddle?

[TronnyJenkins]

Yes that sounds strange, but I went out for a 50 mile ride on Thursday (normally I get around 150-200 in per week) and woke up the next day with knee pain on the top/inside. The only variables are: A. I was pushing it really hard to get the group back because I got called in to work, and B. I was on my new bike, adjusted to fit the same as the old bike. However, at around 30 miles the saddle I was trying to learn to love started killing me. I wonder now if I was somehow pushing my body up off of the pedals because of my butt pain.

I've been icing it off and on and taking ibuprofen and it's feeling better but still a little sore. Is it safe to go ride?

[MattTuck]

There are 2 questions in there, I think.

1. Yes, it is possible that the saddle caused you to make some biomechanical adaptations to 'get away' from the pain in the saddle, and doing this could easily add extra stress to your knees and lead to more pain there.

2. Not sure if you mean you're icing your butt, or your knees. Either way, I would I listen to your body, which might mean giving it a few days.

The bigger goal, if you're really committed to that saddle, is to figure out what the problem is. May require some adjustments to saddle tilt, or some fore aft adjustment to find the spot where you are comfortable on the saddle. Any riding I do on the new saddle would be easy to start off, for a few days while you get comfortable.

Also, was the chamois you wore on its last legs? I've noticed a chamois past its expiration date can make certain saddles feel much worse.

[rustychisel]

can't tell, not enough information, plus it's the internet, but it seems unlikely.

More likely the fit on the bike is not identical to the other.... ITB? measure setback and check seat tube angle, and consider even pedals used and q-factor.

Oh, BTW, measuring seat height is effin useless unless it's from centre of pedal spindle, parallel to seat tube, to 'flat' top of saddle. [measuring from centre of BB is a fool's errand]

[Black Dog]

Well, if you adjust your position to compensate for a painful saddle and also push hard you can certainly put strain on you knee. Regardless, you may want to take a few days off to let your knee recover. You do not want to develop tendentious, it can ruin a whole season.

[HenryA]

No surprise when you rode a new bike hard the first time out. Think about it for a moment.

[Ralph]

it is very difficult to make the fit on one bike identical to another....just going by measurements. A very slight change in saddle tilt can make a big difference in effective saddle height. A couple MM difference is not much on seat post....but enough to effect knees.

Let the knee heal before working it hard again.

[TronnyJenkins]

Matt:
Haha, I have been icing the knee. And I decided to ditch the saddle and replace it with my Flite. The culprit saddle (Arione) is a limited edition to match the bike and people seem to rave about them. I thought I'd give it a solid trial. Well it's out. Chamois is new.

Rusty: It's not the ITB. Going by feeling, which is unreliable because I've never had knee issues, it feels like connective tissue from my quad to the patella. Taking note of your measuring system.

Henry: It wasn't my first ride- just my new bike, so I'm still dialing things in and this particular ride was the saddle's last chance. It failed. This ride was probably mile 300-350 for this bike.

Other guys: Scary stuff, yes. This will be my first full racing season and I've really been looking forward to it and training smart. I haven't been back on the bike except 7min of a trainer spin that I abandoned because the knee felt weird and scared me.

Weather is finally good today so I might try a VERY easy outside ride on my trusty old bike. I'll leave from my house and have the wife on speed dial in case pain sets in.

[Tickdoc]

New bike, new saddle.

If you are like me, factor in winter un-conditioning and a bottom that is already un-saddle hardened. Happens every year for me. When base miles start to accumulate again as the days get longer and warmer, the body will adjust.

I did a hard group ride two weeks ago that resulted in similar pain, and have been dealing with a pain and a pop on my good knee since that ride. And that was on an old bike. I've been relegated to trainer since because of the weather, and pop is almost gone. It is amazing how quickly the undercarriage can forget the constant pressure of sitting and pedaling.

I would gather that a little rest and a easing back in will do the trick. Or, don't give up on the new saddle/bike just yet.

[batman1425]

Any and all of the proposed above is possible. Too much, too soon. Subconscious biomechanical accommodation from the discomfort of the new saddle, muscle imbalance, etc.

While small changes can cause acute issues if you are accustomed a particular position, IMO when this occurs, it points to underlying muscle imbalances or flexibility issues that are accommodated by your current setup. Anything that puts you out of that sweet spot, your muscles, joints and ligaments can't tolerate which leads to pain. If you are making a run at a full racing schedule this year, I would heavily consider this, and consider integrating specific training to address them now while you are still in your buildup. Will save you a lot of grief later.

As with all overuse injuries, especially joints that are poorly vascularized and take time too heal, be smart and let your body repair itself.

[TronnyJenkins]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

New bike, new saddle.

If you are like me, factor in winter un-conditioning and a bottom that is already un-saddle hardened. Happens every year for me. When base miles start to accumulate again as the days get longer and warmer, the body will adjust.

I did a hard group ride two weeks ago that resulted in similar pain, and have been dealing with a pain and a pop on my good knee since that ride. And that was on an old bike. I've been relegated to trainer since because of the weather, and pop is almost gone. It is amazing how quickly the undercarriage can forget the constant pressure of sitting and pedaling.

I would gather that a little rest and a easing back in will do the trick. Or, don't give up on the new saddle/bike just yet.

Fortunately we have had fairly good weather this winter, so I never really lost much fitness from the summer. Unfortunately, waiting for this to fully heal will cut into my training program.

Originally Posted by batman1425

Any and all of the proposed above is possible. Too much, too soon. Subconscious biomechanical accommodation from the discomfort of the new saddle, muscle imbalance, etc.

While small changes can cause acute issues if you are accustomed a particular position, IMO when this occurs, it points to underlying muscle imbalances or flexibility issues that are accommodated by your current setup. Anything that puts you out of that sweet spot, your muscles, joints and ligaments can't tolerate which leads to pain. If you are making a run at a full racing schedule this year, I would heavily consider this, and consider integrating specific training to address them now while you are still in your buildup. Will save you a lot of grief later.

As with all overuse injuries, especially joints that are poorly vascularized and take time too heal, be smart and let your body repair itself.

Thanks for the tip- what plan of action do you suggest to locate any particular issues I may have? One thing I did notice is that with my new power meter, most of my workouts show my L to R leg to be 47.5-52.5.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by TronnyJenkins

Fortunately we have had fairly good weather this winter, so I never really lost much fitness from the summer. Unfortunately, waiting for this to fully heal will cut into my training program.



Thanks for the tip- what plan of action do you suggest to locate any particular issues I may have? One thing I did notice is that with my new power meter, most of my workouts show my L to R leg to be 47.5-52.5.

Talking to a physiotherapist is a good option. L/R power balance will give you a good idea of whole kinetic chains. Consider though that for many folks, it is imbalances of the muscles within the leg that lead to the biggest problems. You likely have imbalances in both legs, but you will always subconsciously protect one side or the other, so they sometimes only manifest in one. Steve Hogg generated lots of good info on this with you can read about online. Many cyclists have chronically weak internal hip flexors and under developed VMOs as the cycling motion limits use of these muscles - leading to instability of the joint. Hard to say what is most appropriate for your specific application. I for example have overly tight hamstrings and external hip flexors and weak psoas muscles which I work on daily with stretching, release, and strengthening exercises, but that may not be what is best for you.

Regarding injury and training - you can't race well if you are injured and I can tell you from experience that training while you are at 50-75% can lead to months of ineffective training due to lack of healing. IME, 1-2 weeks of focused downtime/recovery then getting back to work at 90+% is much better than 50-75% for 6weeks+ and season nagging problems because of failure to heal properly.

[TronnyJenkins]

Originally Posted by batman1425

Talking to a physiotherapist is a good option. L/R power balance will give you a good idea of whole kinetic chains. Consider though that for many folks, it is imbalances of the muscles within the leg that lead to the biggest problems. You likely have imbalances in both legs, but you will always subconsciously protect one side or the other, so they sometimes only manifest in one. Steve Hogg generated lots of good info on this with you can read about online. Many cyclists have chronically weak internal hip flexors and under developed VMOs as the cycling motion limits use of these muscles - leading to instability of the joint. Hard to say what is most appropriate for your specific application. I for example have overly tight hamstrings and external hip flexors and weak psoas muscles which I work on daily with stretching, release, and strengthening exercises, but that may not be what is best for you.

Regarding injury and training - you can't race well if you are injured and I can tell you from experience that training while you are at 50-75% can lead to months of ineffective training due to lack of healing. IME, 1-2 weeks of focused downtime/recovery then getting back to work at 90+% is much better than 50-75% for 6weeks+ and season nagging problems because of failure to heal properly.

Thanks. That last bit isn't what I want to hear, but I will heed the advice.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by TronnyJenkins

Thanks. That last bit isn't what I want to hear, but I will heed the advice.

It's still only January. A few weeks now isn't going to derail your whole season.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by batman1425

It's still only January. A few weeks now isn't going to derail your whole season.

This^^^^

And, little baby rides that cause zero pain can be a good thing to help with recovery from some injuries. Really gentle and absolutely no pain during or after. I think it helps to get your blood circulating and joints lubricated which is a good thing. IMO.

[TronnyJenkins]

Originally Posted by HenryA

This^^^^

And, little baby rides that cause zero pain can be a good thing to help with recovery from some injuries. Really gentle and absolutely no pain during or after. I think it helps to get your blood circulating and joints lubricated which is a good thing. IMO.

I think you're right.
Just got home from an easy 20 miler. The ride started a little stiff, but halfway through I really felt good. Now most of the stiffness is gone with just a little tenderness remaining that isn't apparent with a pedal stroke. I'll continue to take it easy until that's gone.