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  #916  
Old 10-19-2015, 11:53 AM
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shovelhd shovelhd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palincss View Post
Fuel price depends a lot on where you live. Where I live, diesel is priced above 93, but where I go to (and fill up) it's priced between 87 and 89 octane. Since I've come from 150,000 miles with a car that required 91 (unavailable here, so I had to use 93) that on average got 23 mpg, and since I'm getting over 40, I'd still be way ahead of the game losing 4 mpg. And let's face it, only a little while ago, fuel cost twice what it does today so you could stand to lose 50% of your fuel economy and you'd still be level with where you were in 2013.
It definitely matters where you live. In refinery states like NJ, LA and TX, diesel can be cheaper than RUG. Up here it's always been more expensive, between 5%-20% more. I don't compare it to premium. If I were to replace my JSW with another VW (assuming a trade deal from corporate) it would be a GTI. The GSW is only offered in a 5MT for the manual and only on the stripper S. The extra gear is worth more to me than the extra foot of length.
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  #917  
Old 10-19-2015, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
The recall won't be voluntary in MA because we are a CARB state.
Possibly. Even that is too early to know.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/19/bu...el-repair.html

Quote:
New Jersey has a law requiring owners to have emissions recalls carried out on their vehicles and to provide proof in order to register them. But it has never been used and it would be “premature and speculative” to discuss how that law might apply to Volkswagen, said Mairin Bellack, a spokeswoman for the state’s Motor Vehicle Commission.
Quote:
California also requires owners to have their vehicles repaired, said Stanley Young, a spokesman for the California Air Resources Board. The automaker has until Nov. 20 to submit a remedy to California regulators, which must then be approved.
“If it turns out that there is not enough of a response, we do have in California the option of putting a block on registration until the fix is done,” he said. “But that is only as a last resort.”
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  #918  
Old 10-19-2015, 12:06 PM
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Off topic, but in order to get weird characters when copying and pasting I past into a text document on the computer first. Then copy and paste that into forum.

Extra step seems to work.
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  #919  
Old 10-19-2015, 01:07 PM
palincss palincss is offline
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Now that's information worth knowing! Thanks.
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  #920  
Old 10-19-2015, 01:10 PM
Cat3roadracer Cat3roadracer is offline
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Has anyone investigated coverage under a Lemon Law? The cars were manufactured and sold with this defect. We might be covered.
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  #921  
Old 10-19-2015, 01:15 PM
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AngryScientist AngryScientist is offline
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Originally Posted by Cat3roadracer View Post
Has anyone investigated coverage under a Lemon Law? The cars were manufactured and sold with this defect. We might be covered.
what do you mean by covered? almost without a doubt VW will offer some solution to "fix" your car. although lemon laws vary by state, the prevailing theory is almost always that you need multiple failures after giving the manufacturer a chance to correct them before you can use lemon law protection.

so...

you may get there, but are certainly not there yet.
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  #922  
Old 10-19-2015, 01:20 PM
Ralph Ralph is offline
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The Federal emission law requires the manufacturer to warranty the catalytic converter, ECU, and on board diagnostic equipment (OBD) for 8 years or 80,000 miles. Don't know if those parts differ some for a diesel car.
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  #923  
Old 10-19-2015, 04:00 PM
palincss palincss is offline
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This should make some of you happy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by timesunion.com

Lawsuits could force VW to buy back cheating diesels

Tom Krisher, Ap Auto Writer Updated 3:43 pm, Monday, October 19, 2015

DETROIT (AP) Volkswagen almost inevitably will have to compensate owners of diesel cars equipped with emissions-rigging software. Some legal experts say the automaker could be forced to buy back the cars altogether.

Many of the more than 200 lawsuits filed in the past few weeks allege that for seven years VW marketed four-cylinder diesel Golfs, Jettas, Beetles and Passats as clean alternatives to gas engines, knowing all along that the cars were spewing pollution that far exceeded legal limits.

In September, Volkswagen admitted to rigging emissions tests in the U.S. Earlier this month, Michael Horn, the head of its U.S. operations, told a congressional panel that VW was considering compensating owners for the lost value of their cars. He also said that it could take from one to two years to fix all the affected cars.

Seattle lawyer Steve Berman seized on that time frame when he sued VW last week in Los Angeles, seeking full restitution for owners of nearly 70,000 affected cars in California.

In a somewhat unique approach, Berman is seeking to get his clients their money back under California laws requiring automakers to guarantee emissions control parts for up to seven years or 70,000 miles. His lawsuit says that VW can't promptly make its diesels comply with the warranty, so under a different statute it "shall either promptly replace the new motor vehicle or promptly make restitution to the buyer."

The Environmental Protection Agency has said the VW diesels emit 10 times to 40 times the legal limit of nitrogen oxide.

"Our clients don't want to wait a year. They don't want to be driving a dirty car," Berman says.

The plaintiffs make the case that the cars can't be driven legally since they violate pollution standards, says University of Southern California law professor Greg Keating, who specializes in consumer fraud cases. Even though the EPA says the cars can legally stay on the roads, eventually states with pollution tests will force owners to comply with the law, he says.

"They can't give me the car that they told me I was buying, and they're forcing me to inflict environmental harm and be out of compliance with California law because of the wrong they committed," plaintiffs can argue, says Keating.

While Berman's lawsuit covers only cars in California, the consumer fraud argument could be made successfully nationwide, according to Keating.

He and Erik Gordon, a business professor and lawyer at the University of Michigan, say the argument for a buyback is a good way to start settlement talks.

Gordon says the first option for judges would be to make VW pay buyers the difference between the value of the cars without the cheating software and what they are now worth. That could be hard to calculate. Lawyers also could argue that buyers based their purchase on VW's promises of clean, peppy cars, and because the repairs will hurt performance, VW must buy the cars back, he says. "You have to demonstrate to the court's satisfaction that (money) damages won't make you whole," Gordon says.

Most likely, Volkswagen will settle by paying customers to avoid a drawn-out process that keeps the scandal in the news, he says. "VW is going to get clobbered one way or another," Gordon says. As the cars get older, a buyback order is less likely because the owners got considerable use out of them, he adds.

Volkswagen wouldn't comment on pending lawsuits.

Product buybacks are rare, but not unheard of. In a July agreement with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Fiat Chrysler agreed to make buyback offers to owners of more than 500,000 Ram pickup trucks and other vehicles. The Rams have defective steering parts, and some previous repair attempts failed.

Last month, Volkswagen admitted that 482,000 cars in the U.S. from the 2009 to 2015 model years have software that programs them to cheat on emissions tests. It later acknowledged that the same software was on 11 million cars worldwide.

The 482,000 cars are worth an average of $14,466, ranging from $8,409 for a 2009 Jetta to $21,474 for a 2015 Passat, according to Kelley Blue Book. At the average resale value, VW could be forced to pay more than $6.9 billion to repurchase the cars. That amount would cover most of the $7.3 billion that VW has set aside for the emissions scandal.

"It's really enormous for VW to have to buy these things back," Keating says. "But maybe they will have to."

Some owners might forgo a buyback. Under California law, they have the option of getting a replacement vehicle.

Horn said whatever solution VW comes up with could require a compromise from car owners. He said the EPA mileage estimates probably wouldn't change, but the fix could hurt the cars' performance.

Attorneys now are vying to lead the cases, which can become very lucrative for lawyers. Lawyers usually get about 30 percent of class-action settlements.
-- http://www.timesunion.com/news/us/ar...ng-6577534.php
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  #924  
Old 10-19-2015, 04:22 PM
rnhood rnhood is offline
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Tell those lawyers good luck. They will first have to prove that the leadership at VW knew all along of the cheating, and its not clear to me that its a known thing at this time. And the 10X to 40X test results were a realistic on-road test, not the standard protocol test given by local inspection centers. The TDI's will only need to pass the standard, and current, test protocol. In addition, if it cost an unheard of $5k to retrofit the cars, that will still be a lot cheaper than a buy back - not to mention a retrofit will avoid setting a precedent to other countries - where most of these vehicles reside. Oh, and its not going to cost anywhere near $5k to fix them.
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  #925  
Old 10-19-2015, 05:10 PM
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AngryScientist AngryScientist is offline
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So what is happening right now if you own one of the cars in question and you need to go for emissions inspection, like tomorrow?

does your state's inspection facility just run the car through, as normal, knowing at this time full well the cheat code is engaged and the car, in fact fails to meet the regulations, and turn a blind eye until VW gets their plan together?
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  #926  
Old 10-19-2015, 05:22 PM
Ken Robb Ken Robb is offline
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I never owned a diesel so I'm not sure but I don't think California has required testing of individual diesel automobiles-----------yet.
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  #927  
Old 10-19-2015, 05:23 PM
palincss palincss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryScientist

does your state's inspection facility just run the car through, as normal, knowing at this time full well the cheat code is engaged and the car, in fact fails to meet the regulations, and turn a blind eye until VW gets their plan together?
I believe that's a yes. The test protocol is the test protocol. They look for codes, or they look for smoke (in Nevada). Either way, as they are today they pass the tests.
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  #928  
Old 10-19-2015, 05:24 PM
pbarry pbarry is offline
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Pretty sure that it's business as usual until Nov 20. Had my 89 Ranger tested on Sat on the dyno and it blew a 1.26 for nox.

Last edited by pbarry; 10-19-2015 at 06:55 PM.
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  #929  
Old 10-19-2015, 07:11 PM
parallelfish parallelfish is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken Robb View Post
I never owned a diesel so I'm not sure but I don't think California has required testing of individual diesel automobiles-----------yet.
California does require testing diesel autos - for at least two years now.
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  #930  
Old 10-19-2015, 07:53 PM
pbarry pbarry is offline
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Originally Posted by parallelfish View Post
California does require testing diesel autos - for at least two years now.
It was common in CA, in the late 80s and 90s, to find gas Rabbits and Rabbit trucks that were converted to the 1.6 diesel, as the higher mileage gas engines would no longer pass without a rebuild. Swap the motor, and no more etest.
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