Serotta Duetti Pro’s Closest

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by reuben

Threaded, BSA or Italian.

I was thinking more along the lines of that green loctite, but...

[ltwtsculler91]

Originally Posted by fmradio516

Oh dang i just realized im gonna have to figure out this whole "press-fit" thing... never had one. Whats the gold standard install to prevent creaking?

Well done is clean and dry. Best guarantee is to use a thread together Wheels MFG BB which is what I now have on mine.

Didn’t have creak issues with the SRAM one either, but swapped BB to Wheels chasing a creak that turned out to by my Chris King hubs but neither me nor the mechanic could figure out. I’m riding it in the wet a lot so figure it was good cheap insurance.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by fmradio516

I was thinking more along the lines of that green loctite, but...

BBInfinite sends Vibratite 530 and 538 depending on if you need the "repair" kit or not. I've just ordered my own online and use it for pressfit installs now.

[TrackSmart]

*** My first Paceline post! I've been a long-time lurker. I typically post on other forums. ***

I just picked up one of these framesets from a forum member. It should make for a fun project. These 2018-era frames are obviously not aimed at people who desire aero tubing, integrated everything, and ultra-modern design aesthetics.

I'm hoping the frameset has some character, given Ben Serotta designed it as part of his "comeback" - whether that comeback was successful or not! I like that it won't resemble the many similar-looking aero bikes I see on the road. I also have a soft spot for round tubing, level top tubes, and bikes that don't have dropped seat stays. And I'm okay with a bit of road feel from an aluminum frame. Will it be awesome? Will it suck? I won't know until I build it. But I suspect it will have a much nicer ride than its firesale pricepoint would suggest.

[TrackSmart]

As for why these are being sold at firesale prices:

We can't know for sure, but...

1) I second the hypothesis that bespoke steel and titanium buyers (Serotta's customers) were not interested in a Taiwan-manufactured aluminum frame at the heart of the $5,000 to $10,000 semi-bespoke bicycle. That demographic seems less likely to wax poetic about the "magical" ride quality of aluminum tubing that was carefully TIG welded by moderately-trained technicians in a large factory in Taiwan. Apparently that magic is reserved for steel and titanium.

2) I'm guessing he had to order a lot of frames to get economies of scale, especially given he was trying to offer 11 sizes at the outset. Given that he was targeting ~$5,000 as an introductory price for these bikes, he surely had a lot of leftover bikes that weren't getting any younger (2017/2018 vintage at this point).

[TrackSmart]

These framesets are listed for SRAM AXS wireless only, but other drivetrains are surely possible with some adjustments:

- Want DI2? Just drill the appropriate hole for the DI2 wire. Serotta was already offering this option when building these frames.

- A cheap build with mechanical shifting? Sure! It won't be elegant, but definitely possible without much modification.
1) You'll need full cable routing to the derailleurs.
2) For a front deraileur, you'll also need to pick up a 34.9 mm band-on cable stop for the seat tube (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BCG94U). Mount it below the front derailleur clamp.
3) The existing cable guides (i.e. for the brakes) can be used for the shift cables, too (with zip ties). The only place without a guide would be the chainstay below the rear derailleur. Fix that with zip ties (easy) or you can epoxy a cable guide to the bottom of the chainstay to look a bit neater. Note: The cable guide for the rear derailleur is not structural, since you would be running full cable housing from end-to-end. It's just there so the cable won't be flopping around.

** As you can tell, I've been thinking about this project and what to do with that frame when it arrives! **

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by TrackSmart

These framesets are listed for SRAM AXS wireless only, but other drivetrains are surely possible with some adjustments:

- Want DI2? Just drill the appropriate hole for the DI2 wire. Serotta was already offering this option when building these frames.

- A cheap build with mechanical shifting? Sure! It won't be elegant, but definitely possible without much modification.
1) You'll need full cable routing to the derailleurs.
2) For a front deraileur, you'll also need to pick up a 34.9 mm band-on cable stop for the seat tube (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BCG94U). Mount it below the front derailleur clamp.
3) The existing cable guides (i.e. for the brakes) can be used for the shift cables, too (with zip ties). The only place without a guide would be the chainstay below the rear derailleur. Fix that with zip ties (easy) or you can epoxy a cable guide to the bottom of the chainstay to look a bit neater. Note: The cable guide for the rear derailleur is not structural, since you would be running full cable housing from end-to-end. It's just there so the cable won't be flopping around.

** As you can tell, I've been thinking about this project and what to do with that frame when it arrives! **

Hopefully(sounds like it) you'll get around to building it before any of us, so looking for any feedback you've got!

[TrackSmart]

Originally Posted by fmradio516

Oh dang i just realized im gonna have to figure out this whole "press-fit" thing... never had one. Whats the gold standard install to prevent creaking?

Yes, those thread-together bottom brackets are popular among people who have had issues with creaking. Many will install without a bearing press (just use an inexpensive tool to twist it together on the threads). That said...

If the bottom bracket shell is within specification, all you need is:
1) ordinary grease
2) inexpensive plastic-sleeve PF30 bottom bracket ($20-ish dollars)
3) the correct number of spacers when installing the crankset (i.e. after bottom bracket installation is done). The spacers go against the "wavy washer" and help set the pre-load. If the crankset bolt is properly torqued, but it starts creaking after a few rides, you probably need another thin spacer next to the wavy washer to prevent movement - or two washers if that doesn't solve it. People like to freak out before actually getting the pre-load dialed in. Admittedly, those are things you don't need to do with a BSA threaded bottom bracket!

The other main knock against PF30 bottom brackets is that most aren't well-sealed against water ingress, so they have a limited lifespan. But at $20 a pop and 5 minutes of time, it's not a big deal to knock out the old one and press in a new one. Note: The previous-generation Rotor 4630 bottom brackets are cheap, spin pretty well on my bikes, and install easily with a bearing press: Example for $21 including shipping: https://www.ebay.com/itm/382797265518

As for installation tips: Be gentle. Stop turning the handles on the bearing press when everything is gently snug. You are done. Now install the crankset with a torque wrench for the crankset bolt. Again, you may need to add a spacer (or two) to the crankset to get the preload tight enough to prevent movement (i.e. creaking) at the recommended torque. Don't try to fix this by using more torque on the crankset bolt.

BEARING PRESS: You don't need anything fancy, but having a decent press makes the job very easy. I have one of these Wheels Manufacturing bottom bracket presses. Not too expensive (especially used via Ebay) and nicer to use than the DIY tools. Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/285549423374

These presses are even cheaper and can even PULL OUT the old bottom bracket, so you don't have to knock it out with a wooden dowel and hammer (like I do). I've never used one, so can't vouch for how much of a pain they are compared to the nicer Wheels Manufacturing ones: https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/...ducte=11685194

BB30 CRANKSETS (compatible with PF30):
- Really nice, older BB30 cranksets are super cheap on Ebay. Just avoid BB30A cranksets. Those are not the same (they have an assymetrical offset). You can get lightweight, full carbon BB30 cranksets for peanuts.
- Any modern BB386 EVO crankset will also work on a PF30 frameset with an inexpensive set of spacers. Example of spacers: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HVDJ8K...roduct_details
- The benefit of getting a BB386 EVO crankset is that you can move it to another bike more easily if you outgrow this build. BB30/PF30 is basically dead. The short spindle on a BB30 crankset won't work on many modern frames. The BB386EVO, by contrast, works on a fairly large number of modern frames -- even on T47 threaded frames with the correct bottom bracket.


Happy building!

[prototoast]

If you don't like press fit, you can tap the bottom bracket to be t47 threaded. If you don't want electronic shifting, you can add rivet-on sable stops. Both mods are pretty easy of you find someone with the right tools.

[Pegoready]

Originally Posted by TrackSmart

As for why these are being sold at firesale prices:

We can't know for sure, but...

1) I second the hypothesis that bespoke steel and titanium buyers (Serotta's customers) were not interested in a Taiwan-manufactured aluminum frame at the heart of the $5,000 to $10,000 semi-bespoke bicycle. That demographic seems less likely to wax poetic about the "magical" ride quality of aluminum tubing that was carefully TIG welded by moderately-trained technicians in a large factory in Taiwan. Apparently that magic is reserved for steel and titanium.

2) I'm guessing he had to order a lot of frames to get economies of scale, especially given he was trying to offer 11 sizes at the outset. Given that he was targeting ~$5,000 as an introductory price for these bikes, he surely had a lot of leftover bikes that weren't getting any younger (2017/2018 vintage at this point).

The existence of these bikes is a headscratcher but at least according to this eBay page:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19591678116...4AAOSw-lRkwyGc

"These frames were intended to be sold in the UK, but due to uncertain economic conditions, Serotta’s partner backed out of their arrangement. To honor his obligation to the factory, Serotta imported the frames to their facility in the United States."

So someone in the UK wanted to buy and market these frames there, they back out, presumably a factory is left holding the bag, and Ben Serotta either a) bought them to honor the agreement or more likely b) knew it would be better for him to control distribution than some factory blowing them out to the highest bidder (remember when Walmart was selling Rawlands?)

[Pegoready]

Originally Posted by TrackSmart

These framesets are listed for SRAM AXS wireless only, but other drivetrains are surely possible with some adjustments:

- Want DI2? Just drill the appropriate hole for the DI2 wire. Serotta was already offering this option when building these frames.

- A cheap build with mechanical shifting? Sure! It won't be elegant, but definitely possible without much modification.
1) You'll need full cable routing to the derailleurs.
2) For a front deraileur, you'll also need to pick up a 34.9 mm band-on cable stop for the seat tube (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BCG94U). Mount it below the front derailleur clamp.
3) The existing cable guides (i.e. for the brakes) can be used for the shift cables, too (with zip ties). The only place without a guide would be the chainstay below the rear derailleur. Fix that with zip ties (easy) or you can epoxy a cable guide to the bottom of the chainstay to look a bit neater. Note: The cable guide for the rear derailleur is not structural, since you would be running full cable housing from end-to-end. It's just there so the cable won't be flopping around.

** As you can tell, I've been thinking about this project and what to do with that frame when it arrives! **

The full housing along with a clamp stop would work but inelegant in my opinion. I have one of these frames and would like to run a mechanical group with riveted cable stops like these:

https://calfeedesign.com/store/Cable-Stop-p429231402

Along with drilling in a plastic Shimano BB guide.

[overlooked]

An inexpensive thread-together BB option is the Token Ninja. Universal Cycles has four different PF30 options on sale. I can't say how well they work since I'm still waiting for my Duetti to get built but other forum members have spoken favorably of them.

Universal Cycles also has some of the older SRAM eTap Force AXS 2x groups that could make for a reasonably priced build.

[ridethecliche]

Originally Posted by overlooked

An inexpensive thread-together BB option is the Token Ninja. Universal Cycles has four different PF30 options on sale. I can't say how well they work since I'm still waiting for my Duetti to get built but other forum members have spoken favorably of them.

Universal Cycles also has some of the older SRAM eTap Force AXS 2x groups that could make for a reasonably priced build.

I got my token ninjas from treefortbikes

100% recommend. I'll likely always use them if I'm playing with a system that's supposed to be press fit. I just have no interest in dealing with it.

Also, I bought a cheap press fit bb tool a while ago. It works just fine. I've removed and installed a few bb's with it with 0 issues. Totally fine for a home mechanic.

[Clean39T]

If anybody wants to go champagne on an IPA budget - I picked up a PF30 CeramicSpeed Coated BB for GXP cranks for $165 and will pass it forward to a fellow Duettinati member for that.. I sold my GXP cranks and am going to run DUB Rival on mine to keep the price down.

[Hilltopperny]

I took mine out yesterday! This bike rides like a Serotta. It's smooth, comfortable and performs well. It was/is a steal if you can find one that fits and don't want/need internal cable routing. The PF30 with wheels manufacturing bb is silent. AXS wireless works well and prices have gotten pretty reasonable. It also has hidden fender mounts for all weather riding!

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