Chainstay philosophy? - Page 6

cpg · #76 03-19-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atmo

i recall dating a few that could atmo.

Yea but you ran with the wrong crowd or at least that's what Deb said.

Curt

Tom Kellogg · #77 03-19-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Kellogg

Do you really get something? In general, all other things being equal, the answer is yes, but in order to get a really significant amount of vertical compliance from non-mechanical seat stays, you do need to do something like Dave has done. Do our "Mae West" style stays do anything? Glad you asked ... yes, we can measure it quite easily. BUT, unless you have two otherwise identical bikes to test side by side, the difference is subtle. Does it work in any other way? Glad you asked ... yes, they look beautiful to the poor guy you just blew by.

So there you go.

RPS · #78 03-19-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpg

You say people can feel the difference theoretically but haven't done blind test to confirm that. Correct? Not looking for a cat fight just pointing out if there hasn't been any testing how do we know? It's my assertion that most prinesses can't feel that pea but then again I haven't done any testing either.

Curt

Curt, it's a little hard to ride a bike blind, isn't it?

I stated that I have not doubt; not that it's theoretical. And I'll stand by that although it's off-subject for this thread.

FYI: most carbon frames which are accepted by the masses to ride nicely have less than 2 MM of vertical give under normal ride conditions. Additionally, differences in stiff aero wheels versus conventional are less than 2 MM and many riders can detect that difference as well. Again, if you start from a stiff set-up, an incremental 2 MM can be very noticeable.

Do you really have to test everything blind? If you jump off a roof do you have to wear a blindfold to know that the ground hurts?

flydhest · #79 03-19-2007, 02:54 PM

RPS,
To do a blind test, one does not have to be blind. Curt's example of the different weights in water bottles, for instance.

Mark Twain said that it wasn't the things we know that get us into trouble, but the things we know for sure that aren't true. That you have no doubt about something does not make it so.

Lots of riders swear up and down that they can detect differences in various types of gear. Psychologists have written tomes about things like "biased attribution" and "cognitive dissonance."

You don't have to jump off a building blind to know that it hurts, in part because lots of people have jumped off of buildings and had broken legs. All Curt is looking for is similar evidence and I don't think he'll need the blind test any more.

Tom Kellogg · #80 03-19-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flydhest

RPS,
Mark Twain said that it wasn't the things we know that get us into trouble, but the things we know for sure that aren't true. That you have no doubt about something does not make it so.

Psychologists have written tomes about things like "biased attribution" and "cognitive dissonance."

Seth:

You have too much learnin'. You makes us'n look bad. Crit it!

flydhest · #81 03-19-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Kellogg

Seth:

You have too much learnin'. You makes us'n look bad. Crit it!

This from a guy who can design bicycles AND roast coffee. Let me guess, you drink Peruvian, dontcha?

Tom Kellogg · #82 03-19-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flydhest

This from a guy who can design bicycles AND roast coffee. Let me guess, you drink Peruvian, dontcha?

You betcha'. Smooth as silk. Let me know if you want me to send down a bit of the peaberry hand sorted stuff.

SadieKate · #83 03-19-2007, 03:25 PM

Since this thread went from chain stays to include seat stays, may I ask a question? I love curved seat stays and will be ordering a custom ti bike this year. I think the curved seatstays of my old Litespeed Tuscany are comfy and I think the Terraplane seat stays are gorgeous. Alas, the Terraplane isn't Ti.

So I've seen 3 basic curved seat stay designs: 1) The forward curved stay like Litespeed, 2) the wishbone of Kellogg/Merlin, and 3) the B2 of Willits which looks like the same concept as the Terraplane.

Is there a difference in the ride? Anything that would make a difference to the rider? Or is it just aesthetic differences? They each obviously involve different planes. I think the Willits with a straight top tube might be kind of interesting, but a Spectrum calls to me also. The wishbone is seen as I pass (OK, as someone passes me

) and the other from the side but what about the function?

Apologies if you've discussed this earlier in the thread, but I'm an English major not an engineer so I'm struggling with some of the concepts. If you bear with me though, I'll get there. Thanks.

Here is the rear triangle of the new Willits road bike which they brought to the NAHBS.

Ken Robb · #84 03-19-2007, 03:34 PM

It looks like they left in the sun too long- but wait-- we can fix that with these little blue pills.

atmo · #85 03-19-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

It looks like they left in the sun too long- but wait-- we can fix that with these little blue pills.

with those little blue pills, willit work better and longer atmo?

SadieKate · #86 03-19-2007, 03:44 PM

Well, those are useful comments . . . .

Try not to look at the top tube and stem, OK? Just the rear triangle. Sheesh.

There. I edited the picture to keep the conversation on track. Boys . . . .

Jeff N. · #87 03-19-2007, 03:49 PM

Round and radically curved chainstays notwithstanding, my Seven Axiom Ti has no discernable BB flex and as tight a rear end as J-Lo's. Jeff N.

atmo · #88 03-19-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SadieKate

Well, those are useful comments . . . .

Try not to look at the top tube and stem, OK? Just the rear triangle. Sheesh.

i think flydhest summed it up best atmo:

Lots of riders swear up and down that they can detect differences
in various types of gear. Psychologists have written tomes about
things like "biased attribution" and "cognitive dissonance."

the truth is that differences do exist. are they perceptible?
it depends on your experience, skill set, antenna, uncle mick,
what you had for breakfast, if you like the bike's color...

dash · #89 03-19-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atmo

i think flydhest summed it up best atmo:

Lots of riders swear up and down that they can detect differences
in various types of gear. Psychologists have written tomes about
things like "biased attribution" and "cognitive dissonance."

the truth is that differences do exist. are they perceptible?
it depends on your experience, skill set, antenna, uncle mick,
what you had for breakfast, if you like the bike's color...

yes, but which way is better?

Ray · #90 03-19-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coylifut

Serious thread drift, but it looks a bit out of control anyway. Grant must have been talking about the Rigi as seen here. The guy who got me into cycling in the late 70s bought one of these new and he still has it. I can attest that it is the worst handling bicycle I've ever pedaled. If I remember correctly, there were a bunch of really short chainstay bikes that came out around the same time.

Yep, pretty sure that was the one. Although I thought I remembered the tire extending through farther than the one in your pic. But that's probably just my shot memory.

-Ray