OT: Car manufacturers are sharing your driving data with insurance companies...

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

Many types of insurance have gone way up in the last ~2-3 years. My auto policy, fortunately, only went up 6% with my company, but I've been a pretty good risk with them for a long time.

Any idea what kinds of costs have gone up since ~2020?

At the balance sheet level, it is not that granular. But if you look around, it is basically everything- labor, paint, parts, time delays meaning more rental costs, and even the costs for car theft are way up. (in the UK theft is up 53% YOY)

Basically all those stolen Range Rovers shipped to Dubai add up.

[GregL]

Snip:

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Basically all those stolen Range Rovers shipped to Dubai add up.

How about all the Hyundais and Kias that were very easily stolen? In the city of Syracuse, car thefts increased nearly 90% in the past five years. In 2023, 40% of those stolen were Hyundais and Kias.

Greg

[reuben]

Originally Posted by LadyDog

More people on the road than the past few years. More accidents. Increased average car values(both new & used). More costly accidents. Not enough parts. Cars being declared a total loss in instances where in the past, it would get repaired. Ect, etc, etc.

This is pretty much what happened to me a year or two ago. I was rear ended in a low speed collision. Damage to the right rear of my car, but nothing horrible. The lady was very nice, promptly admitted it was her fault, told both insurance companies the same, and so I figured it would get fixed and life would go on.

But the estimates exceeded the magic 70 or 80% of the market value, so it was deemed a total loss. I had the choice of accepting that judgement and taking a lump sum payment of about $5k, or fixing it myself, getting it inspected, getting new insurance, etc., with no recourse if the repair cost more or was insufficient.

It was a 2006 (pre-scandal) Jetta diesel with just over 200,000 miles, and I figured I'd drive it to about 400,000 before it died, so I wanted to get it fixed. But in the end I knuckled under, took the 5k, and spent another 28k or so to buy a new car. That wasn't in the plan.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

At the balance sheet level, it is not the granular. But if you look around, it is basically everything- labor, paint, parts, time delays meaning more rental costs, and even the costs for car theft are way up. (in the UK theft is up 53% YOY)

Basically all those stolen Range Rovers shipped to Dubai add up.

I hear ya, but I would expect those costs to be largely inflation-based. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why such a big jump in the insurance industry, and why now? COVID? IDK. We need a head scratchy smilie.....

[zmalwo]

my insurance would be negative if they saw how I drive.

[benb]

Insurance is pretty regulated here in Masshole land. My guess is the insurance companies are not allowed to do this here.

No different than red light cameras not being allowed here.. Too easy to abuse.

My wife and I have the highest level of "excellent driver" under the state prog rating and our insurance is pretty darn cheap, but it did still go up 40% this year for no reason, I've heard a lot of people complaining about huge insurance increases. It's not the end of the world for us but I could see it being a big problem for some people.

[saab2000]

Practically everything we encounter these days is a data collecting machine. Smart phone? Check. Debit/credit card? Check. Virtually any internet connected device? Check.

It goes on and on.

Oh, and I drive a dreaded Tesla, the brand someone here blamed for rising insurance costs. It’s a data collecting machine of the highest order.

Privacy in 2024 is a complete illusion.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by benb

Insurance is pretty regulated here in Masshole land. My guess is the insurance companies are not allowed to do this here.

No different than red light cameras not being allowed here.. Too easy to abuse.

My wife and I have the highest level of "excellent driver" under the state prog rating and our insurance is pretty darn cheap, but it did still go up 40% this year for no reason, I've heard a lot of people complaining about huge insurance increases. It's not the end of the world for us but I could see it being a big problem for some people.

We have red light cameras here in RI (BE CAREFUL driving here). There is one that is near the Interstate 195 entrance (a bridge is shut down on interstate that is another discussion) and cops directing traffic. Friend was called through red light to proceed per direction of the officer. She proceeded to get automatic ticket. Would cost her more to fight, so 50.00 out of pocket to go through legal intersection. No win. Either cop gets mad at you or you get ticket.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Originally Posted by GregL

Snip:How about all the Hyundais and Kias that were very easily stolen? In the city of Syracuse, car thefts increased nearly 90% in the past five years. In 2023, 40% of those stolen were Hyundais and Kias.

Greg

That had to do with their phone app to remote start the car among other features, and was easily hacked apparently, and supposedly has been remedied. Even the so-called lowly Kia (I've got a Stinger) is a data collecting machine. And we all opt in for the convenience. All of these electronic nannies and data collecting BS cannot be turned off, that I am aware. Being told by my (supposedly) performance car that i am driving too fast, am sleepy or took an exit ramp too fast is really annoying. And kinda creepy.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by LadyDog

Will not say the data collected does not play a factor, but in general insurance rates are increasing.

More people on the road than the past few years. More accidents. Increased average car values(both new & used). More costly accidents. Not enough parts. Cars being declared a total loss in instances where in the past, it would get repaired. Ect, etc, etc.

Coming from someone in the insurance industry.

Yet record profits almost across the board for the major insurers.

The shareholders are ecstatic.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

You can complain, but the reality is auto-insurance companies have taken a beating since 2020.

I will just take Progressive as an example.

Revenue boom from high premiums, but costs boomed more.
Net income fell, loss ratios (percentage of premium used for claims) ballooned from 63% to 79% from 2020 to 2023. This is the root of the problem as others have said.

Sorry, where are you sourcing this?

Geico, Progressive, Chubb, etc. all recorded their best years since pre-COVID (some, ever).

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

Yet record profits almost across the board for the major insurers.

The shareholders are ecstatic.

You want to show the data for a pure play auto insurer that backs up that statement. I do not think it is factual. I think it is a trope.

I think the earnings pickup will be 18 mo out

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

Sorry, where are you sourcing this?

Geico, Progressive, Chubb, etc. all recorded their best years since pre-COVID (some, ever).

I am looking at balance sheet information.
Progressive stock has rallied with PE expansion. Pre-covid it was 12, now it is 35 which only makes sense if you think earnings will catch up now that they are increasing prices.

Progressives EPS was 7+ in 2020, declined to 3.6 for 21, improved slightly to 4.1 in 2022. and 6.1 in 2023. It is forecast to go to 9 in 2024 as price increases kick in.

GEICO is a really hard insurer to analyze because they don't break out auto as stand alone, and there are other large categories.

Chubb is another one which is not pure play. You have property & casulty, re-insurance, life insurance, etc, plus now divide up by North America and Global. Hard to see thru all the moving parts.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

You want to show the data for a pure play auto insurer that backs up that statement. I do not think it is factual. I think it is a trope.

What's your expectation, that they took a huge hit on their auto business and still made record profits?

Doesn't really matter either way, we all foot the bill one way or another.

[OtayBW]

Again, what I can't resolve is how, in the wide, wide world of sports, many auto insurance companies can they get away with some of the exorbitant increases (up to ~40% as we've seen here) that I suspect are not commensurate with actual costs?