BTLOS vs Light Bicycle vs Elite-Wheels

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by fourflys

I think Peter highly recommends the pre-built as well if I remember right.. he seems to a big fan of the Bitex hubs..

A couple of years ago I could not find DT hubs so I had a customer buy a complete BTLOS wheelset with the DT hubs he wanted..and he had them sent to me so I could check their build quality and it was really excellent.

[Carbonita]

My BTLOS wheelset received in January 2024 had poor spoke tension variance (see separate thread). With my calibrated tensiometer, I've had to tension all spokes to within 5% variance. Also, the product images online do NOT match reality, particularly the bead retention ridge is absent on the actual rim, which makes these not ETRTO compliant, with potential associated issues during sudden flatting.

[banananutz]

One thing I keep questioning on these brands, and BTLOS in particular, is ride quality. How do they compare to the Roval/Reserve/DT Swiss/etc. of the world? Tires and tire pressure play a huge role, but carbon hoops can be overtly stiff. It's "easy" to build rims to a strength/weight target, but getting the somewhat subjective ride feel is something else entirely.

I keep thinking about doing a BTLOS WARC39/WARC44 as a much cheaper Reserve 40|44. The only thing holding me back is people raving about the ride quality of those vs the unknown of the BTLOS.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by banananutz

One thing I keep questioning on these brands, and BTLOS in particular, is ride quality. How do they compare to the Roval/Reserve/DT Swiss/etc. of the world? Tires and tire pressure play a huge role, but carbon hoops can be overtly stiff. It's "easy" to build rims to a strength/weight target, but getting the somewhat subjective ride feel is something else entirely.

What is this "ride quality" you speak of? Wheels should be true and round and have adequate (lateral stiffness). What else is there to "ride quality"? There is no meaningful damping in tension spoke wheels, nor is there any meaningful vertical compliance, so what else is there?

[meyatt]

Originally Posted by banananutz

One thing I keep questioning on these brands, and BTLOS in particular, is ride quality. How do they compare to the Roval/Reserve/DT Swiss/etc. of the world?

Direct comparison is difficult because some of those (e.g., Reserve, some Zipp) are pretty wide so it's going to naturally feel different and I've not always used the same tire. That said, having ridden several different sets of carbon rims I couldn't tell the difference. That said after going from alloy to carbon rims, tires and their pressure + the fit with the rim profile seems to be the distinguishing factor of ride quality for me not the layup or brand.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by Carbonita

My BTLOS wheelset received in January 2024 had poor spoke tension variance (see separate thread). With my calibrated tensiometer, I've had to tension all spokes to within 5% variance. Also, the product images online do NOT match reality, particularly the bead retention ridge is absent on the actual rim, which makes these not ETRTO compliant, with potential associated issues during sudden flatting.

The poor spoke tension is definitely frustrating since they are supposed to be handbuilt and inspected before packaging. I would expect 'inspecting' to include ensuring spokes are at proper tension.

The issue of product design is another level of frustrating though. What rims did you buy? My BTLOS wheels that were purchased in Jan'24 for my gravel bike definitely have the bead shelf. They are GX35A rims- asymmetric 35mm deep that are 22mm internal and 29mm external.

Below is a pic of them where you can see the right bead retention ridge and how the rim bed rises before dropping down into the center channel.

[m_sasso]

What you need! https://www.scopecycling.com/product/artech-2/

[Carbonita]

WARC39 extralight, with tension variance >20%, and so low (50kgf) that a few NDS bladed spokes rotated 90° after one ride. After my re-tensioning I've had no issues. I suspect QA was for runout (radial and planar) only, since these were quite good out of the box.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

The poor spoke tension is definitely frustrating since they are supposed to be handbuilt and inspected before packaging. I would expect 'inspecting' to include ensuring spokes are at proper tension.

The issue of product design is another level of frustrating though. What rims did you buy? My BTLOS wheels that were purchased in Jan'24 for my gravel bike definitely have the bead shelf. They are GX35A rims- asymmetric 35mm deep that are 22mm internal and 29mm external.

Below is a pic of them where you can see the right bead retention ridge and how the rim bed rises before dropping down into the center channel.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by Carbonita

WARC39 extralight, with tension variance >20%, and so low (50kgf) that a few NDS bladed spokes rotated 90° after one ride. After my re-tensioning I've had no issues. I suspect QA was for runout (radial and planar) only, since these were quite good out of the box.

I have three sets of BTLOS wheels and haven't measured spoke tension but they seem tensioned and they have stayed true. I am not doubting your experience.

[banananutz]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

What is this "ride quality" you speak of? Wheels should be true and round and have adequate (lateral stiffness). What else is there to "ride quality"? There is no meaningful damping in tension spoke wheels, nor is there any meaningful vertical compliance, so what else is there?

Early enve carbon wheels amd other brands were harsh according to the internet history . Lots of brands now spend time promoting changes to layup to allow some vertical deflection, while remaining laterally stiff. Spokes deflect, if the carbon hoop is rock solid (over built) its a stiff ride. Tires have a big part of ride feel, but the rims absolutely have an impact on the total system.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Carbonita

My BTLOS wheelset received in January 2024 had poor spoke tension variance (see separate thread). With my calibrated tensiometer, I've had to tension all spokes to within 5% variance. Also, the product images online do NOT match reality, particularly the bead retention ridge is absent on the actual rim, which makes these not ETRTO compliant, with potential associated issues during sudden flatting.

Not my experience and were they hookless?

[Carbonita]

WARC39 are hooked -- how would this would affect tension variance? Also, the lack of bead retention ridges is an observable fact, no need for experience nor opinion. I'd asked BTLOS specifically if the rim shape was ETRTO compliant, and the response was yes, which is demonstrably false with actual rim and imagery on their website. Not doubting your significant experience with BTLOS, indeed it influenced my purchase. But for tubeless, ETRTO-standard tolerances and rim profiles matter quite a bit, and is used by tire manufacturers as well, and in testing failure modes.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not my experience and were they hookless?

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by edgerat

BTLOS built by OldPotatoe here is the way to go

Just pulled the trigger on a set of wheels for my Psychlo X. OldPotatoe is lacing up BTLOS RC-30 rims on NOS Campy Record hubs. I went with the matt 12K and the graphene braking surface, arced.

I guess I have to find a couple of pair of carbon compatible brake shoes for my CX8.4 brakes.

[StressStrain]

I only have experience with Light Bicycle, but the experience was great! Ordering was easy, lots of options to chose from, shipping was on time, the build was easy, and the ride great.

Read about the build here:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=305424

[Shane4XC]

Originally Posted by m_sasso

What you need! https://www.scopecycling.com/product/artech-2/

Not sure I trust a company that’s trying to take 5 grand (40-65mm depths) for a wheelset and they can’t even get their diagrams right:
https://imgur.com/a/fgabTwp

40-45mm Carbon spoke wheelsets with carbon spokes are common place with similar weight, at a much cheaper price point. Unless I’m missing something here.

Small typo, maybe. But if I’m shelling out such cash for a wheelset, I’d want precision across the board.