OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Gsinill

FYI: Not trying to defend VW, but it pretty much has been confirmed that Opel/GM in Germany does/did something very similar with their Zafira model.

Shocking

[grawk]

Originally Posted by yngpunk

6/30 is only status conference. Executive summary and settlement documents have been posted here:

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwm...tlement#Owners

Also includes estimate payout should you choose fix or buyback. Actual amount of buyback will available on (or after) July 26th

I'm very happy with those numbers.

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/vol...-and-deceiving

Buyback option: Volkswagen must offer to buy back any affected 2.0 liter vehicle at their retail value as of September 2015 -- just prior to the public disclosure of the emissions issue. Consumers who choose the buyback option will receive between $12,500 and $44,000, depending on their car’s model, year, mileage, and trim of the car, as well as the region of the country where it was purchased. In addition, because a straight buyback will not fully compensate consumers who owe more than their car is worth due to rapid depreciation, the FTC order provides these consumers with an option to have their loans forgiven by Volkswagen. Consumers who have third party loans have the option of having Volkswagen pay off those loans, up to 130 percent of the amount a consumer would be entitled to under the buyback (e.g., if the consumer is entitled to a $20,000 buyback, VW would pay off his/her loans up to a cap of $26,000).

[akelman]

Based on this, I'm going to walk away with MUCH more than I paid for the car. That can't (and shouldn't) be right. I must be misunderstanding something.

[Cat3roadracer]

25k for my 2013. Done.

[Cat3roadracer]

Originally Posted by akelman

Based on this, I'm going to walk away with MUCH more than I paid for the car. That can't (and shouldn't) be right. I must be misunderstanding something.

Consider your pain and suffering.

[David Kirk]

I see the official VW site has the statement that an agreement has been reached but it doesn't have any reference to how much they will give for the car and how much cash one will get along with that.

Does anyone have a source for that info?

dave

[yngpunk]

Originally Posted by akelman

Based on this, I'm going to walk away with MUCH more than I paid for the car. That can't (and shouldn't) be right. I must be misunderstanding something.

Remember, VW needs to get 85% compliance, otherwise the fine for emission violations goes up. I recall that it was mentioned that the amount of cash compensation was increased at the last minute (probably what resulted in the delay of announcing the settlement) to help ensure the 85% compliance since it was felt the initial cash payments proposed wouldn't get the target 85% compliance.

Also, as part of the settlement, VW will offer loan forgiveness of up to 130% of the combined buyback and cash compensation. This is for those who have a loan and are underwater due to rapid depreciation. If your loan is with VW, they will forgive the loan, and if its with a 3rd party lender, they will pay off that loan, up to the 130% amount.

Check www.vwcourtsettlement.com on or after July 26th for a final(?) settlement amount.

[yngpunk]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

I see the official VW site has the statement that an agreement has been reached but it doesn't have any reference to how much they will give for the car and how much cash one will get along with that.

Does anyone have a source for that info?

dave

Dave,

From the court's website:

Executive Summary

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwm...sed-settlement

If you are so inclined to read the entire settlement:

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwm...ettlement-docs

[yngpunk]

Originally Posted by Cat3roadracer

Consider your pain and suffering.

Class action attorneys would argue that defendants needs to be punished above and beyond actual cost of injury/damages so to set an example that this sort of behavior is unacceptable and prevent future mis-deeds.

[YoKev]

Hmmmm...

ftc.gov
"Buyback option: Volkswagen must offer to buy back any affected 2.0 liter vehicle at their retail value as of September 2015 -- just prior to the public disclosure of the emissions issue."

uscourts.gov
"If a Class Member who owns a car chooses a Buyback, the price Volkswagen will pay for that car is the September 2015 National Automobile Dealers Association (“NADA”) Clean Trade In value of the car adjusted for options and mileage (“Vehicle Value”). This figure is the value of the car in September 2015, before the emissions accusations became public.

so which is it?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by yngpunk

Class action attorneys would argue that defendants needs to be punished above and beyond actual cost of injury/damages so to set an example that this sort of behavior is unacceptable and prevent future mis-deeds.

I'll buy this argument before I'll buy the "pain and suffering" argument.

Just how much pain and suffering have individual VW diesel owners endured? Have some felt so guilty about the extra pollution that they have stopped driving their car? I haven't heard anyone here saying that they've stopped driving their cars. In fact, I've heard the opposite - many have said they'd prefer to keep driving their cars exactly the way they are, without a "fix" (extra pollution and all). That doesn't sound like much pain and suffering to me.

[David Kirk]

Does anyone know how to find pre-scandal book trade-in value?

dave

[druptight]

"If no Approved Emissions Modification is available for your car by May 1, 2018, you may choose to accept a Buyback offer or, instead, you will have until June 1, 2018 to exclude yourself from the Class. A free Approved Emissions Modification will be made available to all owners of 2.0-liter TDI vehicles, but restitution will be paid only to those who choose to participate in the Class Settlement Program and do not opt out."

Interesting. While I was originally thinking buyback all the way, now I wonder if this isn't maybe the way to go. Bank an extra $5000 and get my car fixed if a fix is approved, OR take the buyback anyways 2 years down the line if no fix is approved and keep driving it all along. The one major downside here is the 2 years of high NOx it spews out.

[yngpunk]

Originally Posted by YoKev

Hmmmm...

ftc.gov
"Buyback option: Volkswagen must offer to buy back any affected 2.0 liter vehicle at their retail value as of September 2015 -- just prior to the public disclosure of the emissions issue."

uscourts.gov
"If a Class Member who owns a car chooses a Buyback, the price Volkswagen will pay for that car is the September 2015 National Automobile Dealers Association (“NADA”) Clean Trade In value of the car adjusted for options and mileage (“Vehicle Value”). This figure is the value of the car in September 2015, before the emissions accusations became public.

so which is it?

You need to go to the source (the actual settlement document):

"The Base Value for each Eligible Vehicle is (1)where available, the Clean Trade value of the vehicle based on the NADA Vehicle Identification Code (VIC) for each Eligible Vehicle in the September 2015 NADA Used Car Guide published in or around August 2015; and (2) for Model Year (“MY”) 2015 Eligible Vehicles for which no value was published by NADA as of September 2015, derived by multiplying 0.717 by the MSRP for each individual vehicle, as indicated on the list of all owned and leased vehicles provided by Volkswagen, dropping any fractional amount, and then adjusting each Base Value for options. The 0.717 figure represents the ratio of average September 2015 Clean Trade values to average MSRPs for MY 2015 Passats. "

[David Kirk]

Originally Posted by YoKev

Hmmmm...

ftc.gov
"Buyback option: Volkswagen must offer to buy back any affected 2.0 liter vehicle at their retail value as of September 2015 -- just prior to the public disclosure of the emissions issue."

uscourts.gov
"If a Class Member who owns a car chooses a Buyback, the price Volkswagen will pay for that car is the September 2015 National Automobile Dealers Association (“NADA”) Clean Trade In value of the car adjusted for options and mileage (“Vehicle Value”). This figure is the value of the car in September 2015, before the emissions accusations became public.

so which is it?

I think the thing i saw on the VW site was that it was trade-in value.

dave