OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[r_mutt]

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

DPF regeneration, or Diesel Particulate Filter regeneration.

Basically large soot particles are caught in the DPF, which is sort of like a catalytic converter for a diesel. The regen refers to the burning of the larger soot particles to reduce them in size. Active regen involves squirting some fuel into the exhaust (I think) so it reduces efficiency. There is passive regen, where the exhaust temp is enough to reduce soot size. The engine has to be a certain temp, etc, for this to happen. At some point the filter eventually clogs (the soot is not discharged, it's "saved") and you have to replace it.

DPF is covered for 8 years, 80k miles, by VW.

If regen doesn't occur due to driving all short trips etc the DPF will clog very quickly, which then requires replacement. My DPF failed at 40k miles (with no warning lights until the check engine light came on) and it was totally clogged. A DPF light is supposed to light up to warn the owner they need to drive it at higher speeds for 15 minutes but there was no such indicator for us...

how long constitutes being a short trip?


thanks!

[grawk]

Originally Posted by r_mutt

how long constitutes being a short trip?


thanks!

Just a guess, but

drive it at higher speeds for 15 minutes

[r_mutt]

Originally Posted by grawk

Just a guess, but

i don't have that warning light either so i wasn't sure what exactly that meant.

[thirdgenbird]

Everything I have read says the active regen cycle is 10-15min and it sounds like you need to be north of 40mph in order to get enough heat. A service regen cycle can be done by a dealer if the filter gets above 75% clogged. Getting to 95% results on service work.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but these numbers seem pretty similar to other diesel applications. I'm used to seeing the numbers in throttle % and engine hours however.

The entire powetain industry is experiencing pains with new diesel requirements. In many cases the additional cost of these emissions system, the engine load requirements, or the service cost may make a compelling case for gasoline or electric solutions.

[tv_vt]

Looking for some feedback from you all following VW - would you buy a 2012 Jetta Sportwagen, 2.5L gas engine, manual, 50k miles?

Anything to be concerned about with the gas engine and model year?

Thanks.

[rnhood]

No. If I were on a budget, I would get a new Honda Fit - or something similar. Warranty, good loan rates right now, and top tier when it comes to reliability and fitness for its purpose. I would avoid used cars.

[fiataccompli]

I think there was a thread here about that. I've heard good stuff about the 2.5 cars and general fit/trim/service "reliability" of the newer VWs, though having owned & driven a number of early 2000s ones I find that hard to imagine. (Despite my disbelief, I ordered a "loaded", 6MT TDi JSW fresh for '14, so whatever)


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[thirdgenbird]

We bout a used low milage 2014 with the 2.5 and really like it. My wife loves it. The 2.5 is a pretty darn reliable engine. It doesn't have the power a VW turbo has, but they also don't seem to have some of the same issues.

My sister in law got a Fit around the same time, and we much perfer the VW. I have no doubt the Honda will have noticeably lower operating costs, but we are willing to pay the difference to own the VW. Certified used cost was quite reasonable. Warranty was also longer than a new car.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by r_mutt

how long constitutes being a short trip?

thanks!

Our most frequent trips are 1 mile each way (daycare), 1 mile each way (Missus's old commute), and 3 miles each way (Missus's new commute). For daycare and the old commute there are three stop signs and it's mostly downhill, so not very much time for a warm up.

This kind of distance is definitely not optimal for the DPF.

The DPF failed in our Golf.

To make it worse we tend to use our Jetta Sportswagon (TDI) for longer trips (35 minutes or more) like bike races, visits, etc., because it has more room and gets substantially better mileage, about 10-15% better for a trip. JSW might get 45 mpg if we drive fast (75 mph cruising speed - I set our snow tire "ding" to go off at 80 mph and I try not to ding it too many times) with bikes on the roof, low 50s if the bike is inside the car. Golf would basically max out at 45 mpg (no roof rack so bike inside) and if we drove it "faster" it'd be tough to get over about 41-42 mpg. This was from the day we got the Golf.

After the DPF thing we've tried to mix up the cars so that the Golf gets some more driving.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

Looking for some feedback from you all following VW - would you buy a 2012 Jetta Sportwagen, 2.5L gas engine, manual, 50k miles?

Anything to be concerned about with the gas engine and model year?

Thanks.

Our VWs are the first cars we've had where we consistently have bulbs going out, sensors going, etc. Although one sensor was probably TDI specific (in the intake manifold, requiring a new intake manifold, although I learned later there's a hack to get around it), it's a bit disconcerting to have all this stuff happen when the cars are at 41k ('11 Golf) and 68k ('10 JSW). We used to laugh at Range Rovers we saw because inevitably there'd be a bulb or two out. That's us now - license plate bulbs burning out left and right (we're up to 6 I think, 4 in the JSW, 2 in the Golf), side marker lights (3rd? in the Golf?), just ridiculous stuff. One (JSW?) had that weird sensor go, there was a sensor that got replaced when the car was new (JSW I think), Golf had two O2 sensors replaced.

I wouldn't buy a VW.

Actually, let me rephrase that. I would highly recommend a VW. You interested in a 2010 JSW TDI? Heh.

[fiataccompli]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

My sister in law got a Fit around the same time, and we much perfer the VW. I have no doubt the Honda will have noticeably lower operating costs, but we are willing to pay the difference to own the VW.

Talking the other day to a friend who just sold her well-loved 200k+ mile VR6 Golf to buy a Prius, we both acknowledged the same thing...that the VW is a better driving car, handles nicely, etc.


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[grawk]

I have always been hesitant to recommend vws, even tho I've owned quite a few. They drive great, I love the reliability of the TDI drivetrain, and the low end torque. The V6 and W8 Passats I owned were great cars. The problem is they will drive you nuts with little issues as they age. Electrical and electronic issues, weird stupid things failing when they get to be about 5-6 years old. So a 2012 is probably fine for a few more years, beyond that, I'd be concerned.

[bcroslin]

I would not recommend a VW under any circumstances. Our first modern VW was a 2000 Beetle GLI and it was a POS. The moment the warranty ran out on the engine the turbo went. And then electrical stuff started failing and the passenger window fell into the door. I swore I'd never buy another VW but then I did and now I've got a cheater diesel.

[superbowlpats]

Originally Posted by bcroslin

I would not recommend a VW under any circumstances. Our first modern VW was a 2000 Beetle GLI and it was a POS. The moment the warranty ran out on the engine the turbo went. And then electrical stuff started failing and the passenger window fell into the door. I swore I'd never buy another VW but then I did and now I've got a cheater diesel.

agree about the Beetle being a POS. bought my daughter a 1998 as her first car. yike$.

currently I have a 2011 Golf Tdi and so far so good with just normal maintenance. Bought it as a CPO in 2013 with 26k miles, currently has 85K. drove to Penn State today from Mass (460 miles) - got 40 mpg going 70 to 80, rock solid car. No way I'd get that same performance or feel from a Honda Fit. which makes me even more pissed about what VW did.

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

Looking for some feedback from you all following VW - would you buy a 2012 Jetta Sportwagen, 2.5L gas engine, manual, 50k miles?

Anything to be concerned about with the gas engine and model year?

Thanks.

Yes. Comparing a JSW to a Fit is ridiculous. The JSW is much more versatile and carries much more stuff. The 2.5l is known as the 2.slow. Decent torque but no power. With a manual though you can keep it in the sweet spot and it won't be too bad. It's a fairly reliable drivetrain. I have a 2014 TDI JSW and it's a fun to drive and economical platform.