#106
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Saying the bike made it 2.7% better is un-scientific and comical. What it is, I don't know but I know that in the most ideal conditions, everything most likely will only get you a bit of improvement. The data on things mentioned are pretty well established. I don't care either way. I have new and old bikes. I like my new carbon bike. But the data are the data. If people can't understand that... Last edited by vespasianus; 05-14-2024 at 08:34 PM. |
#107
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#108
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LOL, you can theorize and compare stats and argue and huff and puff about this or that...., or just go try it. Just imagine if he had proper gears and toe clips that fit.
Last edited by jamesdak; 05-14-2024 at 08:57 PM. |
#109
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hey, if weekend riders or cat 3 crit racers want to trash old bikes to win a couple of free movie tickets and have a few beers after and enjoy the gloat...by all means! Certainly worth new ten grand aero bikes...and all that goes along with the newest new etc...more power to you.
Will say this via markets "crashing"...wait about six years and see your bikes go down in value in a hardcore way is my guess...these 15 grand specialized machines will be worth pennies on the dollar and you will be reading bike industry articles justifying why those frames and equipment are so far behind and seriously flawed via the newest product and just so useless...and you can get out your checkbook again. Let's take a look at resale values down the road. But yes, buy the very latest thing for sure! No one can deny a 2.7 percent bump in this life...on anything. Last edited by cash05458; 05-14-2024 at 08:55 PM. |
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#111
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I'll pile on with one more non-scientific, only-elite-when-I-ride-with-the-most-mediocre-cyclists piece of anecdotal evidence.
I was lucky to chance into a 1995-built Yamaguchi almost 12 years ago. Before that I had been riding a CAAD9. In moving to hand-built steel, I had expected to experience all of the internet platitudes we know so well--steel is real, steel is forgiving, more comfortable, etc. What I did not expect is that the Yamaguchi's geometry made it ride so much 'faster' than the CAAD. Tens of thousands of miles later, it remains my favorite bike ever. Honestly. People on this forum sometimes talk about 'forever' bikes, but I'm living the dream. I've since added a 'classic' Crumpton SL. Make no mistake--it's an incredible machine (that I will also never sell). The Crumpton came into the stable and lives happily alongside the Yamaguchi. I've set some PRs on the Crumpton. I've set many PRs on the Yamaguchi. In short, I can't picture the bike that would replace the Yamaguchi for me. If these types of bikes really are selling at cheaper prices and you haven't tried one recently (or ever), you owe it to yourself to try a few out until you find something that sings. So many good bikes out there. More importantly--so many good miles ahead of each of us. Whatever shape your adventure takes, make it count. |
#112
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Cost
Very interesting thread. I appreciate the contributions.
One issue which often is ignored is cost. A leitmotif of this thread is that old bikes are as fast, or almost as fast, as the latest and greatest. What leaves me apoplectic is that folks are willing to spend gobs of money for the latest. Folks spend tons of $ for disc brake bikes. Demand is such manufacturers no longer make rim brake bikes. Just wow. Granted discs are better but we debate forever the maintenance headaches and just how much better they are. But folks will spend big money for them. The same can be said for "old" bikes vs. new. Lots of $ for the latest. This thread suggests folks pay a bundle for what are debatable "improvements." We can argue forever as to degree of improvement and the nature of the improvement. But the demand is for the latest. I ponder what this says about human nature. Are we "taken" so easily by marketing hype? Maybe. Are we driven to impress others - and if so, it is to impress others by the amount of $ we are spending. That is almost a status thing. Maybe. Or is it that my satisfaction or peace is dependent on how I perceive my self as cyclist vis a vis the culture - irregardless of how the culture perceives me. I have the latest! Maybe. Just intriguing how much we spend....and for what. Very few of us are making a living racing. These improvements may mean we place a bit better in some race - for the few of us who race. That is a ton of $ for a better place. Just fascinating. Heck it is my money I will spend it as I so chose. That is fine. My curiosity is what motivates us. |
#113
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In the discussion pertaining to the increase in speeds over the years, it should be mentioned at least as a sidebar that some or all of it could-or is likely- to be attributed to the increased effectiveness of performance enhancing drugs and the use of motor devices in some bikes.
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#114
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#115
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Are you commenting about both performance enhancing drugs AND the use of motors or are you trying to use motors as a straw man to dismiss the entire topic?
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#116
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As the saying goes, .......you can't take it with you.
__________________
BIXXIS Prima Cyfac Fignon Proxidium Legend TX6.5 |
#117
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Well, who knows, no one has come back to tell.
I going to try the Egyptian method, where you have small versions of items you'll need in the after life buried with you. I'll have 1/4 scale Ellis buried with me. Figure I'll use it to ride to the Robert Johnson concerts in heaven. |
#118
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Also: morning addendum to my late-night post: for 'the regulars' on this forum I recognize that a 1995-built Yamaguchi is not "vintage steel," but my experience on group rides in the past five years has driven home the point that for most of the riders on the road today (read: younger riders racing and riding with clubs around here) not only is the Yamaguchi a relic from another era (as in: they're not sure what they're seeing but they can tell it's cool), but my Crumpton also reads as a vintage bike from another time. Just a note. |
#119
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I've had and still have some aluminum bikes (only had a carbon bike once), but to me for a road bike that I don't ride nearly as much as I should a 20 year old steel bike comes in at a price point and the ride quality is very nice.
I'm sure as I've seen with aluminum, a higher quality bike would ride even better than my Ox Platinum Lemond but price increae is probably not worth it. |
#120
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As to the doping, no way we have more benefit now with all the testing and biological passports than we did when EPO was running free. It's never been harder to get gains from PEDs but you choose to assume they're more influential than ever? |
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