Mid-reach brake performance on dirt/gravel?

[Heracyclist]

I ride VO Gran Cru brakes with 38mm Rene Herse Steilacooms on SoCal fire roads and the braking power and modulation is excellent. I agree with others that they can pack up with mud, especially the peanut butter kind, and then you’re left with not enough clearance from the tire to the caliper, and left searching for the right size stick with which to de-gunk your brakes and get the wheels spinning again. Sure you could ride these fire roads and light trails on a 32mm to increase clearance Clarence, but the difference between even a 32 and a 38 is massive, in terms of control and comfort. Stopping power of the brakes is improved by changing the stock pads to SwissStop blacks, for my two cents.

[choke]

I love love love my Racer M brakes....excellent power and great modulation. Did I mention that I love them?

This is a 35mm tire.

[zacstanley]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

Coastview is a mountain bike trail. Recently NPS has done some very questionable trail work on the lower section to try to make it more palatable to gravel bikes, but since they aren't good at their jobs the smoother sections are already eroding again. Riding up it on a gravel bike is doable - I used to it frequently on a rim brake bike too. But downhill, it's mountain bike terrain.

I take moderate offense to your singling out of NPS here...I work for NPS and am good at my job, as are many of my colleagues including the GGNRA trails crew.

[DRietz]

Originally Posted by zacstanley

I take moderate offense to your singling out of NPS here...I work for NPS and am good at my job, as are many of my colleagues including the the GGNRA trails crew.

Yep, I thought Eli's comment was a bit uncouth. But, that kinda seems like his vibe, so I don't take it too seriously.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by zacstanley

I take moderate offense to your singling out of NPS here...I work for NPS and am good at my job, as are many of my colleagues including the GGNRA trails crew.

Take a moment and ask yourself if it is possible for you to be good at your job, many of your colleagues to be good at their jobs, yet there still be a person or small crew somewhere in this country that didn't do a project well.

The guy didn't make some over the top claim like 'all NPS workers are morons'. He just said some NPS work was done on a trail and tied the poor result to the ability of the specific workers.

[unterhausen]

For a while, I used some Tektro double pivot on the bike I rode gravel on. They worked really well despite their lack of snob appeal. I always wanted the Shimano version, but I could never find the model that everyone liked.

Originally Posted by El Chaba

I agree. People resist using such old tech, which is a shame. Data point….Mafac Competition calipers with brazed on pivots, Campagnolo Record Ergopower levers (which are oddly compatible with the Mafacs), fenders, etc….One of the best brake setups that I have ever used….

I replaced the tektros with Mafac Racers. They stop really well, and if you file the washers to toe them in, they only rarely squeal a little. Mostly when the rims are wet. I use them with SRAM levers. I have a bike with Racers and brazed on bosses, but I was happy with the braking with the bolt-on arch. I have a couple pairs of RAIDs, but no bikes to use them on atm.

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

I agree. People resist using such old tech, which is a shame. Data point….Mafac Competition calipers with brazed on pivots, Campagnolo Record Ergopower levers (which are oddly compatible with the Mafacs), fenders, etc….One of the best brake setups that I have ever used….

Yes, that is an amazing combo, give any other rim brake set up a run for its money

[p nut]

Bumping this up, if for nothing than to gaze at the Kirk on the first page again.

I’ve been on the hunt for a short-reach frame that clears 30’s. ie Ritchey Road Logic.
But I’m wondering if I can make mid-reach work. With brakes positioned like the Kirk to maximize clearance (for 38’s). But would pushing the pads way down, minimizing leverage be a concern? There are some rougher dirt roads here. 38’s would be fine but the roads are fairly steep and loose. Discs are king here. But I’d like to try mid-reach brakes out.
But it’s a lot of dough for an experiment, as I’d need to go custom.

But 38’s fitting under simple caliper brakes on a springy fork…. That’d be my dream bike.

[weisan]

XX pal, I have been following your posts on this topic for quite some time. I think you have been very consistent as far as expressing your opinions on the type of braking or the braking power necessary for your terrain of choice i.e. the SF Bay area.

You asked for opinions, folks gave theirs, then you followed up by saying "not good enough for where I am from."

Then you go away for a while, a few months later you come back with the same question.

Repeat, rinse, repeat.

Is there a point in all these?

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by p nut

But 38’s fitting under simple caliper brakes on a springy fork…. That’d be my dream bike.

Just for the exercise -- these are 36.6mm tires under Shimano mid-reach BR-650 brakes. The pads are at the bottom of the slots, but I think you could even move them up a mm or so:



I know you could fit another mm around the sides and top, so a true 38mm tire would fit.

I'm pretty sure you'd need to deflate the tire to get it past the brake pads, though, unless you had a "double quick release" with a button up at the levers and also the tab down on the brake calipers themselves.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by p nut

I’ve been on the hunt for a short-reach frame that clears 30’s. ie Ritchey Road Logic.

32's are possible under short-reach brakes if the builder is careful. I have three of those bikes: a Bianchi, a Trek, and a Lemond. The catch is that I had to get custom work done on each of them to dimple the chainstays and raise the brake bridge higher up on the seatstays. But if people can figure out how to do it "aftermarket", it should totally be possible to build it that way in the first place. If you've got an old favorite steel frame with chainstays that aren't super-short, this conversion is an option. The work itself isn't too expensive, but the repaint or powdercoat and decals and clear coat afterwards adds up to a non-trivial cost.

Another option (if you don't mind "vintage" frames) is to look for a frame from the late 70's or early 80's that was designed for 27" rims and then use medium-reach brakes and 700c rims. I've got one of those; 32's totally fit with some room and 35's fit but are a little closer than I like.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

32's are possible under short-reach brakes if the builder is careful. I have three of those bikes: a Bianchi, a Trek, and a Lemond. The catch is that I had to get custom work done on each of them to dimple the chainstays and raise the brake bridge higher up on the seatstays. But if people can figure out how to do it "aftermarket", it should totally be possible to build it that way in the first place. If you've got an old favorite steel frame with chainstays that aren't super-short, this conversion is an option. The work itself isn't too expensive, but the repaint or powdercoat and decals and clear coat afterwards adds up to a non-trivial cost.

Another option (if you don't mind "vintage" frames) is to look for a frame from the late 70's or early 80's that was designed for 27" rims and then use medium-reach brakes and 700c rims. I've got one of those; 32's totally fit with some room and 35's fit but are a little closer than I like.

Thanks for the feedback. How did you get the fork to clear bigger tires? Did you end up getting a different fork?

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by p nut

Thanks for the feedback. How did you get the fork to clear bigger tires? Did you end up getting a different fork?

The Bianchi now has a Waterford fork; the LeMond now has a Nishiki fork. Both of those fit 32's under short reach brakes with no issues. I'm still using the original Trek fork fits 28's, so that's what I'm running on that one.

[AngryScientist]

My old Sequoia easily fits 32's

[jdp211]

Originally Posted by p nut

Bumping this up, if for nothing than to gaze at the Kirk on the first page again.

I’ve been on the hunt for a short-reach frame that clears 30’s. ie Ritchey Road Logic.
But I’m wondering if I can make mid-reach work. With brakes positioned like the Kirk to maximize clearance (for 38’s). But would pushing the pads way down, minimizing leverage be a concern? There are some rougher dirt roads here. 38’s would be fine but the roads are fairly steep and loose. Discs are king here. But I’d like to try mid-reach brakes out.
But it’s a lot of dough for an experiment, as I’d need to go custom.

But 38’s fitting under simple caliper brakes on a springy fork…. That’d be my dream bike.

My RB-1 fits 28s under short reach calipers with lots of clearance. It wouldn't clear a jack brown (33.3), but a 30 would be no problem. A skinny 32 would be probably okay.