OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles

[echappist]

Originally Posted by palincss

Except that it's too small inside to fit a bicycle with fenders & both wheels on.

I know. What would really be ideal is a V70 with a Drive-E or a TSX with 250 HP... I think they actually sell a V70 with Drive-E in Europe, but at really high prices. Rumor is that after they showed off the new V90 Estate Concept, they may overhaul the 80/90 platform and introduce a wagon (S80 and V70 platforms have gone through a decade without overhaul). Maybe by then i'd be able to afford a luxury wagon as opposed to an upscale one

Still, the V60 would represent a major step up fron my current 04 v6 Camry, which i really can't stand on long trips as the seat is uncomfortable

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Good point...

So some would argue we need bigger govt and more laws to monitor and enforce the unrealistic goals set by politicians pandering to their base...fascinating...

I'm just back from a 3 hour ride and I didn't have to breathe any auto exhaust containing lead.
You know why?
Because "big government" made the auto industry adapt and learn to make cars run without lead over 30 years ago.
And when they did that, there was mass groaning, gnashing of teeth, and whining from the US auto industry. Claimed it might be the end of the US auto industry!
But what actually happened? They innovated, and ultimately thrived, and the air got cleaner.
And every time since then new government standards come for MPG or other criteria we hear the same hackneyed arguments from the same people.

[AngryScientist]

as CNY points out, all you have to do is have a carburated car pass you on the road to remember just how bad those cars were from an emmissions standpoint. cars today are much more environmentally friendly, and for us who share the roads and cant roll the window up, that's certainly a plus!

with how inexpensive gas is right now, without regulations, car manufacturers are not going to innovate to drive efficiency and emmisions reduction. the $$ isnt there on it's own.

i used to consider myself a "car guy", and had a long commute, i always wanted a diesel...

these days, i ride my bike and mass transit, and am not looking back. i now like the idea of having a car as a weekend and vacation escape pod, and loathe the idea of driving one long distances daily.

after one trip to a developing or under developed country will tell you why we should be pleased to have a nation where you can ride down a city street without choking on fumes.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

as CNY points out, all you have to do is have a carburated car pass you on the road to remember just how bad those cars were from an emmissions standpoint. cars today are much more environmentally friendly, and for us who share the roads and cant roll the window up, that's certainly a plus!

with how inexpensive gas is right now, without regulations, car manufacturers are not going to innovate to drive efficiency and emmisions reduction. the $$ isnt there on it's own.

i used to consider myself a "car guy", and had a long commute, i always wanted a diesel...

these days, i ride my bike and mass transit, and am not looking back. i now like the idea of having a car as a weekend and vacation escape pod, and loathe the idea of driving one long distances daily.

after one trip to a developing or under developed country will tell you why we should be pleased to have a nation where you can ride down a city street without choking on fumes.

Or you can just start smoking 40 cigarettes a day to get the same experience.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/18/china...ght-study.html

[Ralph]

This clears up the point about the reason why Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, and a few others car manufacturers have said selling diesel engines in small passenger vehicles in the US market makes no sense. (I know GM makes a token effort with their Cruiz) Once you clean up the exhaust....even with the higher energy content of diesel fuel, there is little fuel economy advantage over a small gas engine with same forged pistons and rods, steel crankshaft, direct injection, and turbo charging for low end TQ, and aluminum heads and block. LIke Ford does with their family of gasoline ECO Boost engines, which are relatively simple to clean the exhaust. And the beefed up gas engine has same engine life. And the gas engine costs thousands less to produce, and a lot less to maintain.

VW made a marketing decision, and will now pay the price. However....they are a resourceful company and will survive this. You car owners will wind up with the fuel economy and performance you should have received all along. And hopefully some far extended warranties. You will probably come out fine.

[SlackMan]

Originally Posted by alancw3

bottom line is that vw cheated and now has to pay the price. i just hope it is the $18 billion it should be. and i think there should be criminal charges for the executives of vw of america and prison time.

OK, I'm tired from teaching all morning, but I think this is right: $18 billion divided by 11 million cars is only $1,637 per car.

[SlackMan]

Originally Posted by ergott

We already got a warranty extended on the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) after VW finally admitted that it's prone to failure. It's a very expensive fix and initially they just told people they were using bad diesel. Turns out to be an issue so we got the letter in the mail. It's even transferrable.

While I feel for all of the TDI owners' pain I am very happy to note that it was VW's initial refusal to own up to the HPFP problem that nixed the TDI as an option last time I bought a car. When a company won't own up to such an obvious and incredibly costly problem, it doesn't bode well for the future. That said, I would never have guessed that the bad outcome for the future would have been this emissions debacle.

[ergott]

Yeah, I didn't know about the issue until after the fact.

I was so jazzed at the idea of a peppy wagon. There are just no real options in the states. Hot hatches are just too small and I hate the idea of being forced into a small suv for some practicality.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by SlackMan

OK, I'm tired from teaching all morning, but I think this is right: $18 billion divided by 11 million cars is only $1,637 per car.

The quoted $18 billion was for only the nearly 1/2 million cars sold in the US (up to $37,500 per vehicle). The other 10 1/2 million cars were sold elsewhere than the US, and not subject to US fines.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by ergott

Yeah, I didn't know about the issue until after the fact.

I was so jazzed at the idea of a peppy wagon. There are just no real options in the states. Hot hatches are just too small and I hate the idea of being forced into a small suv for some practicality.

no love for a Volvo?

[Louis]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Oh? You don't say.


Do you feel better now?

Nice, factual retort directly addressing the fact at hand.

I'm now convinced by Adam's argument - it's all Obama's fault.

[ergott]

Originally Posted by echappist

no love for a Volvo?

Starting price much more. I'll admit they've been off my radar for a while.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but the V60 looks like it has less cargo room than the JSW.

[bcroslin]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

Good point...

So some would argue we need bigger govt and more laws to monitor and enforce the unrealistic goals set by politicians pandering to their base...fascinating...

This thread has largely been very informative and constructive. We really don't need politics being injected into it for lulz. Please stop.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by ergott

Yeah, I didn't know about the issue until after the fact.

I was so jazzed at the idea of a peppy wagon. There are just no real options in the states. Hot hatches are just too small and I hate the idea of being forced into a small suv for some practicality.

My Acura TSX Sport Wagon moves well enough and I get 30mpg on average.

Tim

[SlackMan]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The quoted $18 billion was for only the nearly 1/2 million cars sold in the US (up to $37,500 per vehicle). The other 10 1/2 million cars were sold elsewhere than the US, and not subject to US fines.

Sorry, I wasn't clear making my point, which is that the $18 billion figure is probably way understated given the revelation that the problem extends to 11 million vehicles. Although the US cannot fine for those cars, there will likely be some cost to VW. Thus, the cost to VW will likely be much higher than $18 billion.