"Off the shelf" 650B Road Frames (Low Trail Content)

[GRAVELBIKE]

I think Jan H is right about 32mm being the sweet spot for 'fat' 700c tires. My daily rider is shod with 700x32 Randonneur Hypers, and after a lot of experimentation, I'd have to say he's right.

The Black Mountain Cycles road frame will accommodate 700x33 Jack Brown tires w/o fenders (brakes are 57mm sidepulls). I plan on running 700x32 Paselas on mine.

[dauwhe]

For me, it's the tires--first the Trimline, now the Hetre. I haven't seen a 700c tire that's as wide and supple as either of those. I like the Grand Bois and Challenge tires for 700c, but the extra width of the Hetre works really well for me.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I DO see in 32mm width, Hetre has 650b and 700c tires....

Well, the Hetre is 650x42b

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Plus are these relatively light(400 grams or so) and tred-less tires reliable and applicable to loose gravel roads?

Yes, and I've had excellent gravel performance from my Hetres on the tandem

[nahtnoj]

The downsides to it are the sometimes prominent shimmy, but front loaded low trail and shimmy often go hand in hand. [/QUOTE]

I'm confused. I thought the whole point of the front load/low trail design was to prevent handling problems?

[559Rando]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Is it the tire or the size of tire?

Some of each, I'd say. Sticking a 40mm tire on a 700C rim will, of course, also create a large outer diameter. The outer diameter of the Hetre is similar to a 23mm on a 700C.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I DO see in 32mm width, Hetre has 650b and 700c tires....

Hetres are a model of tire from Grand Bois. They do have 700C models, as well as some other 650B models.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Plus are these relatively light(400 grams or so) and tred-less tires reliable and applicable to loose gravel roads?

I can't speak for gravel applications, but Hetres soak up uneven pavement and don't get stuck in drains. On pavement, they seem as fast as the skinnies.

[Kirk007]

timely thread for me - I've concluded I need a big volume shod bike for the crappy streets of Seattle. Jan is right, need 42s to keep from falling into the cracks! So I've been looking at the Boulder bike model, which is lovely, without question but I keep on wondering, about the brakes in particular, given Seattle weather. I've never been a fan of cantilevers, and just the winter grime and wear on rims, yuck.

Seattle weather and steep hills make me gravitate towards disc. And so I wonder, is a 29er with a rigid fork, something like the Salsa Fargo or even just a fairly standard 29er with appropriate gearing, bars etc, the modern day equivalent assuming you figure out how to get fenders etc. on it? Looking at geometries I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference between in terms of function and the Redline monocog 29er that I bought on a whim rides and handles fine, in fact its a heck of a lot of fun. A 44 front chainring, an 11-34 on the back and ghetto fenders...may not be pretty but for 20-30 miles a day in the winter crud....

I dunno, what do the 650b/rando crowd think?

Grazie!

[Puget Pounder]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

timely thread for me - I've concluded I need a big volume shod bike for the crappy streets of Seattle. Jan is right, need 42s to keep from falling into the cracks! So I've been looking at the Boulder bike model, which is lovely, without question but I keep on wondering, about the brakes in particular, given Seattle weather. I've never been a fan of cantilevers, and just the winter grime and wear on rims, yuck.

Seattle weather and steep hills make me gravitate towards disc. And so I wonder, is a 29er with a rigid fork, something like the Salsa Fargo or even just a fairly standard 29er with appropriate gearing, bars etc, the modern day equivalent assuming you figure out how to get fenders etc. on it? Looking at geometries I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference between in terms of function and the Redline monocog 29er that I bought on a whim rides and handles fine, in fact its a heck of a lot of fun. A 44 front chainring, an 11-34 on the back and ghetto fenders...may not be pretty but for 20-30 miles a day in the winter crud....

I dunno, what do the 650b/rando crowd think?

Grazie!

Hey Kirk,

I am in Seattle too and just finished up my 650B conversion. I think a road racing geo that takes fat tires is pretty difficult to find. Hence the conversion of my rodriguez. Hit me up if you want to know more about my experiences thus far.

[fourflys]

I'M thinking about a set of the Paul's mini motos if I get a Boulder... I use the Paul touring now and they are great... I think discs are great, but not totally necessary...

[559Rando]

Originally Posted by fourflys

I'M thinking about a set of the Paul's mini motos if I get a Boulder... I use the Paul touring now and they are great... I think discs are great, but not totally necessary...

The Mini Motos looks super promising, but I'm not sure they'll clear Hetres and fenders. You might ask Kone about that.

Originally Posted by Kirk007

timely thread for me - I've concluded I need a big volume shod bike for the crappy streets of Seattle. Jan is right, need 42s to keep from falling into the cracks! So I've been looking at the Boulder bike model, which is lovely, without question but I keep on wondering, about the brakes in particular, given Seattle weather. I've never been a fan of cantilevers, and just the winter grime and wear on rims, yuck.

Seattle weather and steep hills make me gravitate towards disc. And so I wonder, is a 29er with a rigid fork, something like the Salsa Fargo or even just a fairly standard 29er with appropriate gearing, bars etc, the modern day equivalent assuming you figure out how to get fenders etc. on it? Looking at geometries I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference between in terms of function and the Redline monocog 29er that I bought on a whim rides and handles fine, in fact its a heck of a lot of fun. A 44 front chainring, an 11-34 on the back and ghetto fenders...may not be pretty but for 20-30 miles a day in the winter crud....

Kirk, that Monocog might be exactrly what you need! I think just haven't found a high volume 700C that I can love like the Hetre. I had two 650B bikes and had a 650B fire sale earlier this years and cleared it all out since I thought it was too niche. I haven't enjoyed being on the bike as much.

The Fargo's a promising platform, or you might look at the forthcoming Rawland Drakkar II. It's supposed to be a 650B/700C friendly disc design with a low trail fork.

The Boulder is a spectacular bike and if I could afford an American frame instead of the Rawland, I'd be all over that. As some other guys smarter than me said in this thread, it's a great deal.

At that price point, though, you're breaking in custom frameset prices. I'd be calling Franklin Cycles in OH if I were spending $1500ish on a frameset.

Daniel

[bigmatt]

Originally Posted by nahtnoj

The downsides to it are the sometimes prominent shimmy, but front loaded low trail and shimmy often go hand in hand.

I'm confused. I thought the whole point of the front load/low trail design was to prevent handling problems?[/QUOTE]

The low trail front load shimmy is not a handling problem. It only happens when riding no handed. Under normal riding there are no effects from the shimmy. I have absolutely no trouble decending 30+mph weaving around potholes in the drops or on the hoods. A high trail bike with a front load especially up high like a handlebar bag is going to effect handling a lot and I'm sure will not allow me to decend as I can on my VO.

Hetres work great on dirt roads. My 20 mile one way commute has 6 miles of it dirt roads. I have yet to feel a Hetre lose traction.

Fat supple 700c don't seam to exist. I have bought some Resist nomad 45mm (measure 42mm or so) to try some fat 700c tires. They are a cheap $30 tire so I won't lose much $$ if I don't like them. I have them mounted on my Kelly cross bike, but because of the size had to install a different front derailleur to clear the tire. No test rides yet, but shortly a long dirt/paved ride should happen.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Puget Pounder

Hey Kirk,

I am in Seattle too and just finished up my 650B conversion. I think a road racing geo that takes fat tires is pretty difficult to find. Hence the conversion of my rodriguez. Hit me up if you want to know more about my experiences thus far.

No fenders on that I take it?

and for 650b in general, I guess a future separate thread as to the 650b advantages.

still don't 'get it' but I don't 'get' a lot of things 'bike' these days, I guess.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

No fenders on that I take it?

and for 650b in general, I guess a future separate thread as to the 650b advantages.

still don't 'get it' but I don't 'get' a lot of things 'bike' these days, I guess.

Peter,
Have you had a chance to meet with and talk to Mike at Boulder Bicycles? He is about the most knowledgable person on 650b that I know of...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by fourflys

Peter,
Have you had a chance to meet with and talk to Mike at Boulder Bicycles? He is about the most knowledgable person on 650b that I know of...

Nope. I know Mike Cone, he owns Rene Herse, the MO outfit up in north Boulder. He's been selling 650b Rene's for a while, trying to resurrect the French Rando type bicycle.

Just looking for insight here...not going to have any 650b on the floor, unless Richard at Waterford offers one, which I doubt. "Seems" like a trend to me based on one tire brand. Not sure what it offers over a well made 700c touring/all 'rounder rig.

I'll have a 650b MTB way before a road version. THAT segment is up and coming, has some real advantages particularly for smaller riders who want bigger wheels, IMHO, whereas the road segment seems really, really teeny.

Didn't know that 'Mike' was Mike Cone....

[roydyates]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Nope. I know Mike Cone, he owns Rene Herse, the MO outfit up in north Boulder. He's been selling 650b Rene's for a while, trying to resurrect the French Rando type bicycle.

Just looking for insight here...not going to have any 650b on the floor, unless Richard at Waterford offers one, which I doubt. "Seems" like a trend to me based on one tire brand. Not sure what it offers over a well made 700c touring/all 'rounder rig.

I'll have a 650b MTB way before a road version. THAT segment is up and coming, has some real advantages particularly for smaller riders who want bigger wheels, IMHO, whereas the road segment seems really, really teeny.

Without any smileycons, I can't tell if this exchange is for laughs. Mike at Boulder Bicycles and Mike Kone of Rene Herse are one in the same guy.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

"Seems" like a trend to me based on one tire brand.

(Non-MTB) 650b is that rare case of the industry reluctantly filling a long-unmet, existing demand, not a trend created by supply-side hype.

To "get it" you need to ride one. Mike might be happy to provide you with a loaner, even if you don't plan to carry them in the shop. The forum will vouch for you!