The Road Dangers That We Face & Why

[Spinner]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/10/m...smid=url-share

Quite sobering ...

[GregL]

Thank you for sharing the article! Many of its points align with my observations.

Greg

[bikinchris]

I have watched dashboard camera channels on YouTube for years. The number of drivers who are scofflaws has dramatically increased over the years. It's one thing to be distracted and/or do something dumb on the road. It's a totally different thing to pass in turn lanes, cut drivers off or speed far too fast, pass on shoulders etc.
The fines for doing these things is FAR too lenient. It should START at jail time, losing your license AND your vehicle. If you take their license, they'll just drive without a license. They NEVER have insurance. If you're caught driving without a license and insurance, the fine should require that you give up the vehicle.

[fourflys]

in a local report here in Sonoma County, I just read about a rider who was going down a decline and when they came around a curve, there was a tree in the road it sounds like.. rider went off the road and did not make it. No other vehicles or riders involved from the report.

certainly makes you wonder.. no judgement on the rider.. part of the reason we go uphill to go downhill for most of us..

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by fourflys

in a local report here in Sonoma County, I just read about a rider who was going down a decline and when they came around a curve, there was a tree in the road it sounds like.. rider went off the road and did not make it. No other vehicles or riders involved from the report.

certainly makes you wonder.. no judgement on the rider.. part of the reason we go uphill to go downhill for most of us..

That was on Hauser Bridge Rd, one of the most treacherous descents around, fast sweeping turns up top leading to tight, wet turns at the bottom. Many go down every year during the GranFondo. Report suggests (not yet clear) she overcooked a turn and hit a downed tree off the road. I've done this descent many times and it still earns my utmost respect.

[Coluber42]

There was this in Vox a few months ago about how traffic enforcement is broken in this country:
https://www.vox.com/23880418/traffic...ck-creek-crash

It has definitely been my experience that in the last several years, the drivers in my area have gotten faster, crankier, more aggressive, and more prone to road rage.

It's a constant frustration that we basically have no mechanism to penalize people for speeding and driving aggressively, especially on smaller side streets, except in the case of assigning fault when a crash has already occurred. Good enforcement is about preventing those, and that's missing.

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by donevwil

That was on Hauser Bridge Rd, one of the most treacherous descents around, fast sweeping turns up top leading to tight, wet turns at the bottom. Many go down every year during the GranFondo. Report suggests (not yet clear) she overcooked a turn and hit a downed tree off the road. I've done this descent many times and it still earns my utmost respect.

I quit doing that fondo.. fatality 1 year, heli rescue the next. Nothing like waiting 45min to an hour waiting for that stuff to clear.

[thwart]

Weird thread… initial post about the trend of increasingly dangerous auto driving across the US… it’s morphed into posts about a dangerous downhill road (for cycling) in California.

[benb]

I think it all boils down to no one cares.

The drivers are not motivated to behave.

Car companies are not motivated to care about whether what they are doing actually improves safety.

Smartphone manufacturers don't care about the negatives they've caused, including distracting drivers.

Police don't seem to care about enforcing the rules as much anymore, and they're too distracted by their smartphones.

[vertr]

Originally Posted by benb

I think it all boils down to no one cares.

Without visible police enforcement driving laws and norms are governed by a social contract. Entitled people easily exploit the contract to the detriment of everyone else. They get away with it most of the time, and don't kill people most of the time, so the violence against everyone continues. It's a pretty nasty society where you can't walk around without fearing for your life on a daily basis, with a bike being even more dangerous.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by benb

I think it all boils down to no one cares.

The drivers are not motivated to behave.

Car companies are not motivated to care about whether what they are doing actually improves safety.

Smartphone manufacturers don't care about the negatives they've caused, including distracting drivers.

Police don't seem to care about enforcing the rules as much anymore, and they're too distracted by their smartphones.

I agree with all of this.

I'll add that regulators dont care either. Car companies will do what they can get away with. They all try to make a car safe for the occupants of the car, but little to prevent distracted driving and pedestrian safety IMO. In the US we have all sorts of rules about making the people inside the car safer, but I dont know about too many designed to make the cars safer around vulnerable road users.

I strongly believe that massive touch screen tablets in cars are a bad idea.

[5oakterrace]

I am of the view, noted in the article, that we have a lot of angry people in the world, angry and anxious. Worse than previous decades? Who knows. I drive slow on roads that do not have a lot of traffic. Everyday I pull over to the shoulder so someone can rocket by me. And what is so irrational is that we end up next to one another at the light. They gain nothing. That is a spiritual inner issue - anger, anxiety - manifest by the way we drive. Driving is a proxy for our emotional health/peace.

Throw in these screens in the cars, our cell phones and drivers cannot pay appropriate attention to driving.

Why are we so angry? Clearly, it affects our politics (my view.) But moreso than the past? I do not know. Congress is balkanized, unable to get along. A mess and - perhaps it is because we have dismissed a transcendent reference point for our lives which may the effect of keeping some of that inner stuff - a bit more at bay.

As a nation we are wealthy. Unemployment is way down. I know some struggle but is it worse than other periods. I do not think so. I am interested to read other commentary.

[cgolvin]

Again, no data, just my perception.

People enjoy a sense of isolation and control in the cocoon of their metal enclosure and that contributes to a sense of entitlement to do what they want, rules and norms be damned. Whether feeling angry, vengeful, aggressive, whatever, being surrounded by (at least) a ton of metal insulates them from a sense of responsibility for their actions in their private domain. I'm frequently amazed at the things I see people doing in their cars as if no one can see them.

[PurpleBikeChick]

Agree that our culture is not one that cares for cyclists.

Contrast this with the Dutch view (old 2013 article but best that came up in a search )

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2...e-netherlands/

TL/DR

"The Dutch do indeed try to avoid accidents from happening in the first place."

"Children under the age of 14 are always protected" - "With one exception: in case of intent, similar to that of people of 14 years or older, then the parents or legal guardians are liable for the damage."

".. motor vehicle user is liable for financial damage, unless that driver can prove the incident was caused by circumstances beyond his/her control. That will be hard, because the driver must then prove he/she drove flawless, or that his/her mistake was not the cause of the incident.

If mistake.. was made by the non-motorised road user, that mistake has to be so unlikely, that a motor vehicle user could not reasonably have considered it to happen. Failing to give way or jumping a red light (deliberately or by mistake) are not such unlikely events, they happen regularly, so drivers are not granted ‘circumstances beyond control’ very often.

[merlinmurph]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I strongly believe that massive touch screen tablets in cars are a bad idea.

Absolutely.

We just bought a Hyundai Tucson Hybrid this week with a 10" screen and I hate the f-ing screen. Lots of functions require using the screen which is no different than using a phone.