Problems keep a rear wheel true

[Louis]

Edit: The title should be "Problems keeping a rear wheel true."

I have a relatively new rear wheel on my daily driver. Not sure how many miles on it, but I'd guess about 500. Velocity A23 rim, WI hub, 28 Sapim spokes, CX-ray on NDS, Race on DS. This particular wheel was built by an expert builder, not a klutz like me, but I'm having a hard time keeping it true.

Typically during a ride a spoke will completely loose tension, to the point where if the road is smooth I can feel the wobble. The first time it happened the rim did not rub the brake pads. I'm pretty sure it was a DS spoke. I trued it on the bike (not perfect, but close) and rode a few weeks, then today the same thing happened again, but I did get brake rub, so I re-tensioned that spoke and rode on. I'm not sure that the problem is in the same spot as the first time, because I did not mark it.

I'm thinking of going back to 19mm rims for this bike, so right now I'm going to true it again, ride it over the weekend, then next week take the wheel off and replace it with something else.

I have two questions about the wheel:

1) My plan is to take it to the LBS that does most of my wheelbuilding (but not this wheel) and ask them to "do whatever it takes so that it stays true." Assuming they are pretty competent builders (the same guy's been doing it for a long, long time, at least 30 years, and I've had good luck with his wheels in the past) is this likely to work?

2) Would there be any benefit to asking them to use some sort of thread-locking stuff on the nipples? How often is that used?

TIA

[cachagua]

I'd say taking it to a 30-year veteran wheelbuilder, whose wheels you've had good results with before, is likely to work.

Let us know what he finds, and what he does about it?

[rice rocket]

"Expert" builders can have off days too I guess.

Threadlocking may help, but it's up to the builder really. If your tensions are even, it's just redundant.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

"Expert" builders can have off days too I guess.

Threadlocking may help, but it's up to the builder really. If your tensions are even, it's just redundant.

It does sound like he spokes are unevenly tensioned. My guess is the shop will loosen the spokes and then retension the wheel. I bet this ends your problems.

[buldogge]

Mark @ Ballwin Cycles??? Alternatively, Farrell at Big Shark West or Colin at Big Shark Delmar do excellent wheel work as well.

Sounds like a tension issue for sure...was there a lot of wind-up/pinging with the cx-rays when you first rode it???

Sounds like a nice wheel-build, a re-tension/true should do wonders.

FWIW, I use linseed oil on the spoke threads.

-Mark in St. Louis

[Louis]

Originally Posted by buldogge

Mark @ Ballwin Cycles??? Alternatively, Farrell at Big Shark West or Colin at Big Shark Delmar do excellent wheel work as well.

Sounds like a tension issue for sure...was there a lot of wind-up/pinging with the cx-rays when you first rode it???

Ray at A-1 has built a few that have worked out well over time. I've thought about Mark at Ballwin, but had a bad experience there once (by his assistants, not him, who did a horrible job of removing a fork crown race - that was before I got around to buying a puller for myself) so I've been leery of the place ever since.

I didn't notice any wind-up in the cx-rays, but yes, initially it did ping a lot when going the "my" big hill. At the time it stayed true, so I didn't worry about it, but maybe I should have checked the tension to see how even it was.

[Peter P.]

If your wheelbuilder is experienced as you say, I won't consider any assembly errors as a possibility.

What I HAVE seen is wheels built using light gauge spokes and heavy gauge nipples i.e., 15ga. at the threads with a nipple meant for 14ga. spokes.

Heck; it'll thread on fine and actually hold some tension. But when asked to perform on the road, the nipple doesn't unthread so much as it actually pulls straight through the threads, as in slip a few threads, if you understand what I mean.

Sometimes you grab the wrong nipples or they're mixed in with the right size nipples in the box. How can you tell? Oversized nipples will thread on just fine but they won't stop at the bottom of the threads, you can thread them right onto the spoke shaft, although not necessarily in all cases.

Confirm the diameter of your spokes and replace all the nipples with the correct size, or at least do so with the offending spoke(s). You should be fine as it's not the rim that's the problem.

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by Louis

Edit: The title should be "Problems keeping a rear wheel true."

Can't help with your question, but if you click "Edit", then "Go Advanced", you can edit the title.

[tmf]

If you continue to ride on this wheel before it gets fixed, keep a close eye on the tire clearance with the frame in addition to the brake pad/rim rubbing (when a spoke is loose). If your tire is at all close to the seat or chain stays, a loose spoke can result in tire rub that can quickly do some damage - especially to a carbon frame.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Louis

Edit: The title should be "Problems keeping a rear wheel true."

I have a relatively new rear wheel on my daily driver. Not sure how many miles on it, but I'd guess about 500. Velocity A23 rim, WI hub, 28 Sapim spokes, CX-ray on NDS, Race on DS. This particular wheel was built by an expert builder, not a klutz like me, but I'm having a hard time keeping it true.

Typically during a ride a spoke will completely loose tension, to the point where if the road is smooth I can feel the wobble. The first time it happened the rim did not rub the brake pads. I'm pretty sure it was a DS spoke. I trued it on the bike (not perfect, but close) and rode a few weeks, then today the same thing happened again, but I did get brake rub, so I re-tensioned that spoke and rode on. I'm not sure that the problem is in the same spot as the first time, because I did not mark it.

I'm thinking of going back to 19mm rims for this bike, so right now I'm going to true it again, ride it over the weekend, then next week take the wheel off and replace it with something else.

I have two questions about the wheel:

1) My plan is to take it to the LBS that does most of my wheelbuilding (but not this wheel) and ask them to "do whatever it takes so that it stays true." Assuming they are pretty competent builders (the same guy's been doing it for a long, long time, at least 30 years, and I've had good luck with his wheels in the past) is this likely to work?

2) Would there be any benefit to asking them to use some sort of thread-locking stuff on the nipples? How often is that used?

TIA

I suspect the wheel was ridden when new without adequate tension..riding like this will cause 2 things, it will do out of true and the rim will get 'deformed'(bent). Either that or ya hit something, which did the same as above, resulting in erratic tension, which causes the wheel to go outta true.

Without knowing much about you and your riding style..28h, thin spokes NDS 'may' have contributed to the wheel 'getting deformed' as well..or a combo of the above.

A spoke is getting loose because the tension there is too low. A de-tension, re-tension may help it. Hopefully the guy doing it uses a tension meter. NOBODY'S hands can tell tension accurately.

If it pinged 'a lot', the wheelbuilder didn't take the windup out of the spokes...a new wheel first ridden should NOT make any noise at all.

[MattTuck]

I'd take it back to the original wheelbuilder, describe the problems and ask him to look at it.

There are a few local wheelbuilders here that give a lifetime warranty on their work.

If this guy takes pride in his work, he'd probably appreciate the feedback and prefer that he identify and fix the problem so you are happy, rather than having a bad experience and taking it elsewhere to be fixed.

[ergott]

The White Industries rear hub needs a lot of tension to be reliable. With the A23 I would use about 125-130kgf on the right side.

I just heard that WI just respaced the flages, but I still have to verify that for myself.