Campy 11 speed, need lower gears, mass confusion

[Flinch]

OK, here's the deal. I've got a pre 2015 Chorus 11 speed drivetrain, 12-27 cassette, 50/34 crank rings. No bueno on hills. I want to stick with the 11 speed shifters, and have read a lot of threads that discuss what swaps with which: (no it doesn't, yes it does, no it doesn't etc.), and always devolves for some reason into Potenza vs Centaur. No one has asked if there are pre-2015 long cage rear Ds?

So, what is the easiest way to get a 34 to 36t cassette into the mix, keeping the 11 speed STIs and cranks? I've heard that you can:
1. Use a Shimano 11 speed cassette
2. Use a Shimano 9, 10 speed rear derailleur (I've got a 6700 Ultegra...It won't work! Yes it will!)
3. Use a Chorus 10 speed long cage 2010 rear D
4. Pre 2015 and 2015+ derailleurs work fine with the rest of the drivetrain.
5. Pre 2015 and 2015+ derailleurs won't work fine with the rest of the drivetrain.
6. Find an unobtainium Athena long cage rear D (There's two incompatible versions! No there isn't!)

Could some kind soul gently lead me to nirvana, go ahead and pretend that I'm dumb (easy!), and give me the ultimate truth to the Campy Universe?

Ooo, gotta go - here comes the nice nurse - it's pudding Wednesday at the home!

[robertbb]

I can't talk to the combination of 10 speed stuff with 11 speed stuff but can say with utmost certainty:

11 speed 2015+ is not backwards compatible with generations 1 or 2 of 11 speed (2015+ was gen 3).

11 speed power shift and ultra shift are not compatible* (return spring on the RD's are different). Don't mix Potenza or Athena with C/R/SR.

*the "long arm" front derailleurs, which are found in 11 speed gen 2 and 2015+ groups are all interchangeable.

Medium cage is labelled 29-32 only, but works perfectly with smaller cassettes down to 25. Will be sloppy with 23.

[jtakeda]

11-36 cassette will shifter just fine if you have the mid cage rear der.

Ill admit my bike has 46/30 cranks though so Im not sure if youll max out with the compact gearing.

If you want to get an idea of what I just did to my campy 11 speed a couple days ago this will give you a chuckle


Thats deore xt RD to an 11-40 cassette with campy drivetrain

[Mark McM]

One thought:

If you are fine with your current 50/12 high gear but want a lower low gear, then consider 46-30 subcompact crank with an 11-32 11spd cassette. This will provide a high gear nearly identical to a 50/12 combination, and a low gear nearly identical with a 34/36 combination. An 11spd medium cage derailleur will handle this gearing combination. If your current rear derailleur has a short cage, then you can convert it by swapping just the cage. I've used an 11spd front derailleur with a 46-30 subcompact, and it works just fine.

Of course, you'll need a new crank for the 46-30 chainrings. There are multiple options for subcompact cranks so there is some choice there. If you want to stick with Campagnolo, then there is the new Super Record WRL crank with 45-29 chainrings, which will provide gearing just slighly lower than the 46-30 crank. Or, for gearing just slighly higher than the 46-30, you could get a Chorus 48-32 crank - although this will be a 12spd crank, it should work fine with an 11spd drivetrain. With the 48-32 crank, the low gear of 32/32 will be the same as a 50-34 crank with a 34 tooth rear sprocket.

[Scott5182]

Option 1
If you can source a long cage 11 speed Campy rear derailleur, add a Wolf tooth road link and source an IRD 11-34 campy spaced cassette, works great. I have this set up on 2 old steeds.
Option 2
In addition to the above….Swap the campy crank for a White Industries square taper VBC crankset, use 30/50 chainrings.

The long cage and road Link are my go to with Shimano and Campy 10 and 11 speed gearing. On Shimano I run up to a 11-36 cassette with a 34/50 crank.

I’m old, live in the mountains. 30/34 will get me up any asphalt around.

Hope this helps.
Scott

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

One thought:

If you are fine with your current 50/12 high gear but want a lower low gear, then consider 46-30 subcompact crank with an 11-32 11spd cassette. This will provide a high gear nearly identical to a 50/12 combination, and a low gear nearly identical with a 34/36 combination. An 11spd medium cage derailleur will handle this gearing combination. If your current rear derailleur has a short cage, then you can convert it by swapping just the cage. I've used an 11spd front derailleur with a 46-30 subcompact, and it works just fine.

Of course, you'll need a new crank for the 46-30 chainrings. There are multiple options for subcompact cranks so there is some choice there. If you want to stick with Campagnolo, then there is the new Super Record WRL crank with 45-29 chainrings, which will provide gearing just slighly lower than the 46-30 crank. Or, for gearing just slighly higher than the 46-30, you could get a Chorus 48-32 crank - although this will be a 12spd crank, it should work fine with an 11spd drivetrain. With the 48-32 crank, the low gear of 32/32 will be the same as a 50-34 crank with a 34 tooth rear sprocket.

Kind of forgot to mention that I need 165mm cranks, which I just got. So another new crankset may be difficult to find in that length. What's a source for the derailleur cages for pre 2015 Ds ?

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by Scott5182

Option 1
If you can source a long cage 11 speed Campy rear derailleur, add a Wolf tooth road link and source an IRD 11-34 campy spaced cassette, works great. I have this set up on 2 old steeds.
Option 2
In addition to the above….Swap the campy crank for a White Industries square taper VBC crankset, use 30/50 chainrings.

The long cage and road Link are my go to with Shimano and Campy 10 and 11 speed gearing. On Shimano I run up to a 11-36 cassette with a 34/50 crank.

I’m old, live in the mountains. 30/34 will get me up any asphalt around.

Hope this helps.
Scott

I ran the 11-36 with no road link. Just the mid cage RD. Probably depending on what kind of derailleur hanger youre workin with

[Gabe77]

The 2015+ system can go to 32T with the mid-length tensioner with the Centaur 12-32 cassette. I have 12spd Chorus with the 11-34 and wouldn't miss the 2 teeth. (Same compact crankset).
Campagnolo cages are cross-installable so you can get a cheap Centaur unit and graft it on.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by robertbb

I can't talk to the combination of 10 speed stuff with 11 speed stuff but can say with utmost certainty:

11 speed 2015+ is not backwards compatible with generations 1 or 2 of 11 speed (2015+ was gen 3).

11 speed power shift and ultra shift are not compatible* (return spring on the RD's are different). Don't mix Potenza or Athena with C/R/SR.

*the "long arm" front derailleurs, which are found in 11 speed gen 2 and 2015+ groups are all interchangeable.

Medium cage is labelled 29-32 only, but works perfectly with smaller cassettes down to 25. Will be sloppy with 23.

2015+ 11s Campagnolo rear derailleur will work just fine with pre 2015 Chorus 11s shifters.

An Athena 11s rear der, even 2011 when the shifters went to Powershift works fine with any Chorus 11s shifter set..You are correct about Potenza tho.

A properly sized chain using a long cage rear der will work fine on a 23t biggest cog cassette.

For the OP...Use a 11-32 Shimano 11s cassette, size the chain properly so you have just enough chain for big-big combo...go ride.

[glepore]

I run a short cage (EPS) derailleur with a road link (actually a ZTTO link from Aliexpress, 5 bucks vs 30). Works fine with a 32, although the chain is slack in the 50/11. So what? Never use that combo. Shortening the chain would make the 50-32 unusable, and I do occasionally hit that gear by mistake.
Campy will tell you this degrades the shifting and can shorten derailleur life. Probably, but I need the 32.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Flinch

Kind of forgot to mention that I need 165mm cranks, which I just got. So another new crankset may be difficult to find in that length. What's a source for the derailleur cages for pre 2015 Ds ?

Many cranksets are available in 165mm these days, including the the two Campagnolo cranksets previously mentioned (Super Record WRL and Chorus 12spd). Other brands of subcompact cranks such as FSA, Praxis, Rotor, Sugino, White Industries, etc. are also available in 165mm.

I haven't tried using a Centaur derailleur cage on a Chorus rear derailleur, but the Chorus/Record medium cage is available from several European retailers:

https://sprockets.uk.com/campagnolo-...018-rd-re102m/
https://www.probikeshop.com/en/gb/ca...2m/260609.html

(By the way, I've successfully used a 2015+ medium cage rear derailleur with a 34 tooth sprocket; your results may vary, depending on variables such as hanger and chainstay lengths.)

[jdp211]

Originally Posted by glepore

I run a short cage (EPS) derailleur with a road link (actually a ZTTO link from Aliexpress, 5 bucks vs 30). Works fine with a 32, although the chain is slack in the 50/11. So what? Never use that combo. Shortening the chain would make the 50-32 unusable, and I do occasionally hit that gear by mistake.
Campy will tell you this degrades the shifting and can shorten derailleur life. Probably, but I need the 32.

To this end, I'm running 11/32 with a 52/36 on a short cage and roadlink. It shifts perfectly acceptably. That said, I have my chain short enough that 52-32 (or 30) is not an option, but that's fine because I can always just shift my front derailleur and I do find myself in 52-11 somewhat frequently (lots of loooong descents in SoCal).

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

I ran the 11-36 with no road link. Just the mid cage RD. Probably depending on what kind of derailleur hanger youre workin with

It's a standard Serotta Legend hanger, if that helps. This is not my bike, but same hanger:

[cgolvin]

I think it would be helpful to know how much more low gearing you think you need beyond your current 34/27. If just a 30 or 32 in the rear will be enough then a longer RD cage and a new cassette should serve. If you think those are ok for now but you'll need more in the future, then a new crankset (in combination with these changes) makes the most sense.

If you want to keep the Campy look then the Chorus 12 48/32 crankset is the right choice, and they're available in 165 (as Mark already pointed out above). Praxis is also a good alternative unless your BB is ITA (not impossible but a royal PITA, involves buying one of several ITA BBs and swapping one of the bearings). If you think you'll need more, then a 46/30 like the White Industries (or one of those Suginos?) is probably a better choice.

I used a Praxis Zayante carbon 48/32 crankset on my Ottrott with pre-2015 SR shift group (short RD cage, 11-29 cassette) and it worked great. I do a lot of climbing, including quite steep stuff, and even if I couldn't really spin the 32/29 on the steepest stuff, it was adequate. Having the additional 32 in the back on my current Chorus 12 setup makes things a bit better when my legs are tired.

[Gwerziou]

I run a long-cage 'titanium' Record 10-speed rear derailleur with 2014 11-speed shifters and it works perfectly - I mean, really great. I use an 11-32 cassette. On the front I have an old 110 BCD cold-forged crank with Specialites TA 48/34 chainrings - works perfectly. The front derailleur can be either a pre-2015, a post 2015 'long arm' although I found the throw on those was a bit too aggressive and could throw the chain off more readily, or a Record triple or racing triple. The crank I use is nominally a triple although I use it as a double, and the Record triple 10-speed front derailleur I use works like a charm. I also have an old Record OR triple front derailleur in perfect condition that I am going to test just for kicks along with an incoming NOS/NIB Euclid crank, used as a double with the TA chainrings.