Specialized Pathfinder Pro, the sleeper hit of gravel tires

[iPaul]

@Angry, found this.

https://mtbhopper.com/products/smile...40633816612886

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by EB

Yeah, this was not something I’d recommend for a normal human, although the XCC course at Nove Mesto is basically a gravel course, aside from the wood ramp and that one tiny “rough” downhill section. It’s especially in contrast to the XCO course there, which is quite technical, relatively speaking.

I wonder if he would have done it if Specialized offered a true 29er slick - the Fast Trak is more of a semi-slick.

The new Captain prototype is pretty fast looking - more space between tiny knobs than the Fast Trak. And it looks like Blevins was on Renegades. I think he just likes narrow fast tires.

I think I've seen PFP on Vittoria Terreno Zeros at Nove Mesto, so your point about mostly gravel course is well taken.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Pulling this back from page 4 to note that Victor Koretzky won a World Cup short track XC event on 47mm Pathfinders this past weekend. This is less to note that Pathfinders are amazing (though I do like mine), but more that I'm amazed at the skill level of XC pros to push those tires through proper XC corners at short track speeds.

Damn, that's wild. I'm curious what his pressures were . Kidding aside, maybe they wouldn't be terrible in an 100% offroad situation where you can run low pressures and not worry as much about bouncing around. Or maybe I could try a set and use some inserts to keep squirm at bay? Or just stick with my Tracers, which I really like.

Also interesting is that we just got my 4 year old a Specialized Jett, and it comes with 2.0" (51mm?) Specialized Pathfinders on it. He's not doing much offroad right now, but I've set the tires at 12psi (He's ~45 pounds) for him to hopefully give him some confidence. He loves the bike so far, reports that its way faster than his previous 12" Cleary but the longer wheelbase is noticeable in tight turns.


https://www.specialized.com/us/en/je...=349731-216938

[EB]

Originally Posted by rothwem

Damn, that's wild. I'm curious what his pressures were . Kidding aside, maybe they wouldn't be terrible in an 100% offroad situation where you can run low pressures and not worry as much about bouncing around. Or maybe I could try a set and use some inserts to keep squirm at bay? Or just stick with my Tracers, which I really like.

I'd be wary of emulating decisions like this by world-class XC racers, who are crazy and will make unreasonable tradeoffs to get an edge to win races. The traction tradeoff here is... significant. Not something I would be comfortable with at all, especially following 25 other freaks of nature going full gas into that terrible, way off-camber gravel left-hander they put on that course.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by rothwem

Damn, that's wild. I'm curious what his pressures were . Kidding aside, maybe they wouldn't be terrible in an 100% offroad situation where you can run low pressures and not worry as much about bouncing around. Or maybe I could try a set and use some inserts to keep squirm at bay? Or just stick with my Tracers, which I really like.

Also interesting is that we just got my 4 year old a Specialized Jett, and it comes with 2.0" (51mm?) Specialized Pathfinders on it. He's not doing much offroad right now, but I've set the tires at 12psi (He's ~45 pounds) for him to hopefully give him some confidence. He loves the bike so far, reports that its way faster than his previous 12" Cleary but the longer wheelbase is noticeable in tight turns.

https://assets.specialized.com/i/spe...mage$&fmt=auto
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/je...=349731-216938

This is so funny. I wonder how many oddball sizes the Pathfinder and Pathfinder Pro have actually been made - there's also a wire-bead 27.5x2.3 version for some reason.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

This is so funny. I wonder how many oddball sizes the Pathfinder and Pathfinder Pro have actually been made - there's also a wire-bead 27.5x2.3 version for some reason.

Isn't that for their urban e-bikes?

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by EB

I'd be wary of emulating decisions like this by world-class XC racers, who are crazy and will make unreasonable tradeoffs to get an edge to win races. The traction tradeoff here is... significant. Not something I would be comfortable with at all, especially following 25 other freaks of nature going full gas into that terrible, way off-camber gravel left-hander they put on that course.

I've been doing a little experimenting and it's crazy how different an XC tire is to a trail or gravity tire. This hasn't been scientific at all since my grippier tires have slightly more durable casings and my faster tires have slightly faster compounds, so it's not just tread differences that are in my observations. But:
- braking with grippier tires is wildly better - WAY faster deceleration with very little skidding
- loose uphills can be ridden on grippier tires at much slower speeds and with much less body english than low-tread tires. you can sort of sit and plod climbs with high tread tires, where the same climb will require a higher speed and much more physical input to not spin out with a low tread tire
- acceleration and speed maintenance on flatter sections is way higher with low tread tires. like you need to pedal all the way through a section with high tread tires, and the same section with low tread tires is 3 pedal strokes and 2 pumps and all of a sudden you're carrying way too much speed

I suspect that compound also contributes a lot to these differences, as a super soft compound will have you stuck to the corners but at significant rolling resistance cost. Not sure about casing differences. But the skill, strength, and fitness that it takes to ride a tire like a Pathfinder or Aspen ST (in probably the fastest, least grippy compound available) around any sort of technical track is immense. If you can make it work, though, you go a lot faster.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by November Dave

I've been doing a little experimenting and it's crazy how different an XC tire is to a trail or gravity tire. This hasn't been scientific at all since my grippier tires have slightly more durable casings and my faster tires have slightly faster compounds, so it's not just tread differences that are in my observations. But:
- braking with grippier tires is wildly better - WAY faster deceleration with very little skidding
- loose uphills can be ridden on grippier tires at much slower speeds and with much less body english than low-tread tires. you can sort of sit and plod climbs with high tread tires, where the same climb will require a higher speed and much more physical input to not spin out with a low tread tire
- acceleration and speed maintenance on flatter sections is way higher with low tread tires. like you need to pedal all the way through a section with high tread tires, and the same section with low tread tires is 3 pedal strokes and 2 pumps and all of a sudden you're carrying way too much speed

I suspect that compound also contributes a lot to these differences, as a super soft compound will have you stuck to the corners but at significant rolling resistance cost. Not sure about casing differences. But the skill, strength, and fitness that it takes to ride a tire like a Pathfinder or Aspen ST (in probably the fastest, least grippy compound available) around any sort of technical track is immense. If you can make it work, though, you go a lot faster.

My experience as well. I think it’s not as big a deal as folks are making it and these guys aren’t super heroes, but YMMV. The pathfinder has decent shoulder lugs and with a confident cornering skill they are sufficient for most but certainly not all conditions. For just going fast in a generally straight line or less extreme cornering, if the tire can take the abuse it doesn’t matter much what tread it has. Just roll right over…

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

My experience as well. I think it’s not as big a deal as folks are making it and these guys aren’t super heroes, but YMMV. The pathfinder has decent shoulder lugs and with a confident cornering skill they are sufficient for most but certainly not all conditions. For just going fast in a generally straight line or less extreme cornering, if the tire can take the abuse it doesn’t matter much what tread it has. Just roll right over…

This is part of what impresses me about Koretzky. With the pit rules and setups the way they are, a significant portion of XC racing is getting your bleeding edge equipment around the track without braking it. I'd break a rim on 47mm tires at the speeds they're riding.

I also agree with November Dave's take on XC vs trail tires. Barzo/Mezcal is my happy spot for rolling resistance, braking and drive traction and being able to actually lean the bike over in a turn.

[benb]

I wouldn't discount that an XC bike allows you to shift weight to corner differently in a way that a gravel bike might not.

More upright position, wider bars, better ability to get out of the saddle will let you corner a tire like the pathfinder a little differently.

Mostly keeping the bike a little more upright with the riders weight further to the inside of the corner I would expect.

If you are a MTBer it is not really ridiculous to ride a gravel bike on mountain bike trails so of course a tire is not going to be ridiculous when they call it gravel but you stick it on an XC MTB.

Specialized doesn't fool around, they've made some of my favorite tires of all time over the years.