Steelman Closing Shop?
 

I just read on Brent's facebook page that he is closing up shop and refunding deposits. If true that is very sad. I enjoyed dealing with Brent and I hope he gets through whatever rough patch he is in.

That would be unfortunate indeed. Brent builds a great bike, and has been quietly doing so for years. A pal of mine must have at least half a dozen customs by Brent, each one truly magnificent. A shame if he shuts it down.

What a shame. Here is my favorite Steelman to date.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5202/5...50db7fc0_b.jpg

^^^ I know the owner of that bike!

If that's true, it's a shame. I sure love my Steelman Stagerace. I know a couple of other steelman owners and all have nothing but positive things to say about their rides.

Only gripe I've heard was that he can come off a little... rough on the edges sometimes. But I wouldn't know, I've never met the guy and he's never responded to my emails :bike: .

Hope him the best though :beer:

I'm "friends" with Brent and also Steelman Cycles on facebook, but don't see any notice. I see some concern by customers that he's disappeared, but nothing from him.

I'm not a big facebooker, so it's possible I'm not looking in the right place too.

My Steelman Eurocross is the best all around bike I've ever ridden.

EDIT: I see it now. Not posted by him, but by customers of his on his page.

Sad news indeed.

Wow, their website doesnt say anything.

The problem i been seeing for a while is that the market is slow and way too many builders in the country kind'a make the situation worse. So make a living outta building bikes is tough, unless you really want to do it because you like it and you don't care that much about money, but at some point money is an issue even if you are super altruist. Hope he is not closing the shop because if a health problem.

Many builders could make some money just repairing frames but doesn't look like an option for many of them at least here in the US. Where i'm from many of the income for the few builders came from frame repairs, lastly the asian invasion ended up killing the whole industry of master builders because was cheaper get an asian frame that was going to end up in the trash anyways than get built a good frame that could cost you 4 times more, specially if you were sponsor the races yourself. Met with one of the builders like 4 years ago and he had not touched his equipment in 10 years, carbon and aluminum took over.

As I said before, hope steelman is not closing the shop for health reasons, sad he is out tho.

One customer said he got a letter in the mail and deposit refund. Another customer said that she had also supplied components for a build. Food for thought when dealing with a one man shop, just saying. Really not sure why builders get a deposit before the build is begun. At least he is a class act and refunding deposits as opposed to another well-known builder that customers are waiting years and years for their bike.

I wonder if that's why we see more top builders turning to carbon such as Strong and Slawta?

Funny how some builders have 5+ year waiting lists and some
struggle. Maybe the niche isn't as big as we think? Or becoming maxed out?

VF

Because customers can be flakes or have problems arise too. I'm having to sell privately a frame and fork that a client had to back away from at the last minute when his business imploded. I don't feel like it's right to sell a new frame for cheap when I'm delivering frames at full cost. This frame is a unique color making it even harder to place. There has been real costs to my efforts up until this point. Because I'm a newer builder, and keep my backlog small, I don't currently ask for a deposit, but I think a modest sum to show the buyer's intentions and to hold the spot in line is more than fair.

I agree, a deposit should not be to "finance" the builder or be used for anything except maybe the tubes. Deposits are financially a liability and should be viewed as such.

Thats'a good question.

The reason is simple - so both sides have some skin in the game. I ask for a $300 to hold the clients place in line - that is their skin. Mine is that I'm making cash flow and business plans based on the promise of that future business. Without predictable and reliable cashflow there is no way a builder can plan and do anything more than survive day to day.

For a short period many years ago I put people in the queue without taking an even small deposit - I just took them at their word. Unfortunately no matter how well intended they were and how much they really wanted a bike when I contacted them and told them is was time to go they bailed - one after another. Lesson learned. So now I ask for that $300 and it keeps to impulse purchases that will never be followed through on to a minimum and now I can plan ahead and run my business much more efficiently........and the customer is assured a spot in the queue. We both have something at risk.

dave

[QUOTE=dekindy]Really not sure why builders get a deposit before the build is begun.

We provide proprietary research and analysis data for our clients and without a retainer, the information doesn't begin to leave our side of the intellectual table. If I were in the custom frame business, I would use the same model, as it miminimizes the risk of a buyer going South.

It speaks volumes of Steelman's integrity in returning the deposits.

that is a gorgeous bike imho
cheers

It is on this page and can be seen in a comment from what was a potential owner...
http://www.facebook.com/steelmancycles

I think it's easy to confuse a few builder's long queues with a pent up demand for handbuilt bikes. I know some new builders get into the game because they see that Vanilla has an X year wait and they think that they can get in on it and satisfy some of that demand. It of course doesn't work that way - the long wait for a Vanilla doesn't indicate unsatisfied demand for handbuilt bikes in general but for Vanilla's in particular. So the new guy jumps in and waits for the emails and calls to come rolling in and in most cases they just don't.

IMO it's just simple supply and demand.

dave

SOME builders are MUCH better marketers than others. Not necessarily better builders, but definitely better marketers....

Texbike

Some discussion here about the situation if anyone is interested...
http://forums.mtbr.com/custom-builde...ly-757034.html

If Brent is done, that would suck. For lack of a better term, at the moment. Knew I shoulda pulled the trigger sooner. Quietly making beautiful frames is Brent's M.O. Had the pleasure of having a short convo with him, in emails, a while back. Very cool dude. Would be a shame.

I think its eminently reasonable to ask for a deposit. I don't know this Steelman fellow, but I find it very respectable that he is actually refunding deposits. That shows that he treated it like a deposit and not like income.

Step back a second here. I know it is your business and livelihood but you are being a little touchy. I said before the tubes are ordered and the work begun, not after; of course it is appropriate to request work in progress funds or full payment. In fact, regardless of your status as a new builder it was foolish to not require funds before the work was begun.

I have heard of more than one instance where customers did not get the product for years beyond the expected delivery date and some none at all. The amount and length of time that I would have to pay funds in advance would be a prime consideration for me when selecting a builder.

I'm not touchy. I was just responding to what I thought was a good question. BTW, There is quite a bit of work involved before the tubes are cut too. I'm not complaining at all. My system works for me. I'm capitalized enough that I don't sweat the cash flow and the costs are built in. Every business deals with these issues. Framebuilders aren't special.

JG

That is a reasonable amount and your que is reasonable for the fine reputation that you have. I have seen much more substantial amounts required and longer waiting periods that do not seem reasonable to me. OTOH if they can command that in the marketplace then I do not begrudge them from doing it as it is only business. However I would be inclined to shy away from that situation.

I did correct my original reply; see below.

My bad, I looked at my original reply and should have worded it differently. I should have said before the work is ready to begin; in other words when my point in the que is reached that a firm delivery date can be given + or - a few weeks.

I don't have any hesitation for paying for work that is done; in fact I believe very firmly in it.

I think there are two subjects here - one is that it appears Brent is closing his doors and that is sad - he does very nice work and I hope he lands on his feet.

The other side topic is that of deposits. I don't know how to say this gently but if you don't have 100% trust in the guy I would suggest you not send him any money. It's that simple. Some builders have stellar reputations for a good reason - they work hard to make happy customers and this means engaging in communication, timely and accurate delivery and a solid product - and in my view these are the guys that it's worth the risk of sending money to and then waiting.

Before sending anyone money I'd search the various forums out there with the guys name and see what pops up. This will tell you all you need to know. The top guys will have very clean and professional reputations and the other guys will come with stories. I like doing biz with someone who doesn't have all the stories.

If you do this homework you can be assured that the guy you are trusting with your hard earned money will take care of you and know you are in good hands. And if the poop hits the fan they will step up like Steelman has and do the right thing.

dave

just sold my Steelman because it was too big for me but it was indeed a very well built and riding machine... Sorry to hear the news but there are many other fine builders to be sure... always sucks to see someone have to close up shop though...

Depression may be part of the issue. Again, cool guy, awesome builder, a true "artisan". And I, secondly, hope he lands on his feet.

This is true of any industry. Creating a culture and developing your brand are part and parcel of business building.

I was looking at Steelman before I found a Rock Lobster. I wish the owners nothing but the best.

I agree in concept, but I think there is a culture of suffering in silence regardingsome builders. In addition, there is a culture of shouting down somebody with issues. I ran into this with the issues I had with Paul Taylor. I googled and searched and almost nothing but good things. The deal went sour and I started a thread here suggesting we review builders for this very purpose. My one thread on Taylor generated no less than 10 PMs outlining all the issues folks were having with him, all of them asking I keep it quiet out of fear they would get neither a frame nor money back.

My original thread on this issue.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showth...ghlight=taylor

Cool, 99.9% of the people I've dealt with in my two businesses have been honorable and great to work with. We all should should plan for the best and prepare for the worst. It's a shame that a few guys make the interwebs and give us all a bad name.

It's too bad Steelman is shutting, I never get tired of looking at his frames.

I wonder, now that the Paceline is unaffiliated, would an area for customer feedback be warranted/needed/wanted?




William

I think this is a great idea.

This is indeed a shame. I've always admired his work, hope he's ok.

Ahead of you, just started that thread.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=104346

I have found in my dealings with very small ventures that the owners are much better at their product or service production than they are at running a business. I believe this is especially true of an artisan type business like frame building. Many in the bike building business are more oriented to the artistic side of things more than record keeping and accounting. As a result often mistakes and misunderstandings in order details are common.

The builders that succeed are often those that run their business well.

Wayne

I've had the pleasure of owning TWO of his frames. First one was stolen from my vehicle (very sad day) and the replacement (very happy day) an SR model is the bike I currently am riding. Fantastic riding frames. Sad news if true.

I've had the pleasure of owning TWO of his frames. First one was stolen from my house and recovered damaged (very sad day) and the replacement (very happy day) a Eurocross model is the bike I currently am riding. Fantastic riding frames. Sad news if true.

Good friend/riding buddy/club member told me yesterday that he got the notice from Brent that his order is cancelled, his biz is closing and a refund will be sent.

Really to bad but it sounds like he has good reasons that revolve around taking of himself and getting healthy.

I wish him the best, he's a good guy, really good builder and has/had a passion for the sport we all love and it showed in his work.

KRhea

I almost had to part with mine in December when our lender informed us a few days prior to closing on a house that we had to come up with more money. Luckily, my year-end bonus saved me from having to sell. I am glad I still have it.

Brent was very nice with me and spent a great deal of time fitting me, drawing maps of rides around the SF Penninsula for me, and just generally talking about bikes. He clearly loves bikes and knows how to build them. I hope he finds his way back to the bench so he can continue his craft.