OT: VW cheating emissions on TDI vehicles
 

It appears that the official vehicle of Paceliners everywhere is about to see a big fat recall. Allegedly, '09-15 TDI's have software that detects emissions testing and appears to make the cars seem to be cleaner than they actually run in the real world.

Autonews story here

(We own a 2010 TDI and I don't care if the EPA says there's demons in my engine they can't have my Sportwagen)

Saw that in the NYT today. What will the fix be? How will it affect our mileage?

Fines are dandy--especially combined with jail time for people who ordered and/or signed off on this fraud.

I wonder how owners can be forced to allow their cars to modified to be legal. It seems very likely that legal will mean decreased performance,economy or both.

I'll give it 90 days before a class-action lawsuit notice lands in our mailboxes

Allow the union to hold another vote and let them win.

Incredible.

This could be a big deal for VW. What were they thinking.

Argh! I just bought my first new car ever - a 2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI. I bought it specifically for the combination of fuel efficiency and performance. I wonder if I can return it? I doubt it, of course. But I don't want to give up on those qualities or pollute the air. What a pisser.

Wait and see. Wait and see.

I teach diesel emissions and engine management systems for a major OEM. There is alot of technology there and its hard for the competition to figure out. This could all be an attempt by the competition to slow VW down. Euro6 emissions is tough too and they have no problem over there.

My theory is based on my information of what Navistar was accusing the competition of doing. The reality was the accuser was the one involved in the wrong doing. They (Navistar) just couldnt figure out the technology. In the end they ended up buying their exhaust aftertreatment systems from their competition (Cummins). Wait and see.

I had to serve on jury duty this week and I was amazed and interested as lawyers spun the webs and spun the facts.

VW can hire the best so this is far from an open and closed deal.

Just heard this on NPR quick reviews

Lame :/

I just had a recall this summer that involved a reflash of the brain. Wonder if that's related. I did the reflash at a dealer for free and didn't notice any difference. I keep track of my mileage and no difference there either.

Question... after reading the problem basically is that the software just turn on and off the emissions control system (or whatever is called) just when is needed instead of having it on all the time?? right??

If thats the problem, isnt a solution to upgrade the software so the emission system is always on??

Call me old fashion: but the VW wagon never got anywhere with me cause I'm 6'3" and, while the tall need a car - that car aint for me (the SAAB 95 wagon with a 4 cylinder engine and turbo and far roomier interior was a superior car - one of the best highway cars ever made). Also, 'turbo' and a hatchback was the original cheater: cars in Europe are taxed on weight and HP - hatchbacks give you more room, turbo gives you more speed without HP. Tesla is a hatchback for a reason.

I dig the VW, but that car can't fit tall people and, well, surprise, surprise.

???:confused:???

Trolling?

Most likely, but the EPA won't like being duped like that. Someone will pay for this with their head.

Me too, and it was listed as a recall on my notification in the mail. I can't even find that "recall" listed anywhere online.

Same thing here. We had an issue with the software download and they insisted we reschedule to have the software updated.

There's a forum I check in with for VW JSW stuff.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisp...tta-SportWagen

I'll just leave this right here...


http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34257424

All recalls are listed on the NHTSA website. Most of them are listed long before we even have a solution for them.

Allow me to give the response for the 11 people on the stage during the debate this week.



"China pollutes more than the US."

I remember this, the voice of reason.

Popular opinion is that the recall that some owners received starting back in April is related. Makes one wonder if VW was trying to get ahead of the issue before being "forced" by the government to fix the issue.

From what I've read, most people don't notice a difference in performance or fuel economy post software update. For those who've had their ECU tuned, this is another matter since it is believed that the ECU flash with new software will erase the tune and potentially make it difficult to re-tune.

If someone is looking to sell one of these horrible polluting machines, let me know...!

i have lost faith in all of our institutions / corporations
 

if you can't trust VW, who can you trust? Just in case you are Sheldon Cooper, this is sarcasm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82CtZX9gmZ8

The federal government should reject the type certification of all the affected cars as it was attained by fraud, collect them, crush them, and let the owners settle with VW via the court system. Or use the threat of it to levy the appropriate fines of VW.

They won't do that, but intentional fraud to beat a regulation should mean billions in fines.

I own a 2013 TDi and it will be interesting to learn more about what the trickery does. I suspect it doesn't have a large effect on everyday driving but that the ECU was optimized for the rolling road test done in the EU to give it a better emissions rating which the euros think about when they shop for a car....unlike most of the USA.

But we will see.

I've put about 30,000 miles on mine now and it's averaged over 42 mpg for that time in all type of driving and never once have I seen any soot come out the tail pipe. Come to think of it the inside of the tail pipe is not even black.

All that said VW effed up in a big way on this one and they should pay a hefty price for this stupid decision.

dave

So since VW can tweak the ECU software I wonder if I can get them to flash my ECU so I can roll coal on those jerk cyclists.

Oops, wrong forum. :D

Reading the NOV, it sounds like they basically shut off the lean NOx selective catalyzer. Since that has a finite lifespan based on the amount of NOx catalyzed, turning it off would mean a longer service life for the (very expensive) part. Turning it on full time shouldn't have a performance impact, but it might mean replacing that catalyzer every 30,000 miles hereafter. Since the catalyzer has to operate at a specific temperature, I'm guessing it was pretty easy - only send power to the part when the CARB/EPA cycle is being run - wheel speed indicating dyno/rolling road, specific rpm ranges etc. I guess the government needs to keep those testing protocols even more secret.

It's pretty damn sneaky and not something that got done by accident, that's for sure. And pretty amazing that they didn't admit it until the EPA said, "F*ck you then, we won't type certify your 2016 cars until you explain the variance between the test protocol results and real world results."

Good work government and WVU scientists!

If this was pro cycling it's like VW got caught with electric motors in their bikes. There's no way around the deliberate attempt to get away with breaking the rules. It's not like a manufacturing tolerance was a bit off.

Having said that...

We are a two TDI household (2010, 2011). Also, as of a couple months ago, I'm technically an employee of a dealership family that has a VW dealership, and I park with their employees because we share lots.

Hey Dave, I guess one could say that this is another piece of car technology derived direct from F1 (a la the 1994 traction control scandal).

So the solution to having cars that cause too much pollution is to create 700,000+ tons of solid waste?

It's going to be very interesting to see how this shakes out and what VW has to do to our cars. Mine was in for basic service not that long back and I was told there was a service campaign and that the ECU was updated. I wonder if it was due to this?

I just read in the Times that VW could be fined as much as $37K for every car they sold that was part of this scheme and they said that would total $18,000,000,000 - yep 18 billions dollars.

That could hurt the bottom line. The thing that sucks is that there will be one guy at the most high up who's head will roll and then it will be the guys on the line that pay for it in the long run.

I'm pissed. I bought the car because of its high MPG and lower emissions not in spite of them.

dave

And of course what we really need is less government regulation, not more, because that interferes with the proper operation of the economy.

Emissions from cars
 

In the mid 1990's my son was dating a girl whose father worked for CARB. He told me that over 90% of car pollution was caused by old cars. But, the state knowing this, would not do anything about this because it would cause a tremendous uproar. There's a lot of bull···· when it comes to pollution measurements.
As bad as it sounds, I just don't believe anything politicians or gov't spokesmen say anymore. Lying to the public seems to be their MO

i think that might be sarcasm?
 

me and Sheldon Cooper are learning.

I read this too. The gist seems to be that Europe is reconsidering their love affair with diesels.


In this case, VW admitted the existence of the defeat device.

EPA's Notice of Violation:
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf

i'm guessing you mean "tall people in the rear seats behind a tall person in the front"? i agree if there are 6 footers in the front, avg adults in the back might not be too happy with legroom. supposedly this has been helped with the new 2016 model year MQB platform.

i'm 6'5" and have no issues finding a comfortable driving position in the Sportwagen. considering decreased headroom with the panoramic moonroof, i still don't have the seat pushed all the way back...

Me too - I'm 6'4" and if I put the seat all the way back I can't push the clutch all the way in. Lots of room for me.

dave

I'm glad you two chimed in. I'm not tall at all, but know from cleaning my car that the seat goes way back on the rails. Sure you'll take out the knees of the person behind you, but I have the seat pretty far forward and even have the height up all the way.